What are these?

zeta
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:54 am
Contact:

What are these?

Postby zeta » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:52 pm

These are/were my father's and grandfather's guitars, respectively. I can't read the serial number of the Mosley but the Mosrite is V0042. My father always said the Mosrite was special and referred to it as a prototype but I found another person online who said that the only real special thing about it is that it predates the Venture's branding deal.

I've been told that Semie Moseley and my grandfather were friends somehow, I'm starting to suspect through his ministry after reading more about Moseley Guitars, and that Semie gave both of these guitars to them. I'm not very familiar with the non Mosrite since my grandfather wasn't around when I grew up and I don't think my father had his guitar until after his passing and I was out on my own.

From reading the forum and finding some pictures online, is that other guitar a "Celebrity"? I wonder if the serial number is listed somewhere else. My coworker suggested I try to take a rubbing of the serial number to see if that makes it more clear. I do have the admit that I'm the only non-musical person in my father's or my generation. I assume it's probably safe to destring the guitar to take a rubbing?

Hopefully my post is appropriate and thank you all for your time :D!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/PSeRCE7Cud4N8spj7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/QkUkT26jWQdhT1MG9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ogxw3r2E2aAgRNAd7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/SFSyvJCd52vAD1ASA

Eduardo Aguilu

Re: What are these?

Postby Eduardo Aguilu » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:21 pm

They are beautiful and I wish I had something to add but I just looked at hundreds of images on Google Images, using various entry terms and I didn't see any models resembling yours. Even though I'm not into the particular models, they are Mosrites and I'm really looking forward to the replies from the knowledgeable members.

User avatar
Sarah93003
Master Contributor
Posts: 3727
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:26 pm
Location: Westlake Village, CA
Contact:

Re: What are these?

Postby Sarah93003 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:18 pm

I'd like to see more photos of the Celebrity based guitar. I have seen that logo before and will have to check my notes on that. Did you look between the last two frets for a serial number? If it is easier to email photos you can send them to: Sarah@MosriteCelebrity.com
____________________
1965 Mosrite Celebrity Prototype with Vibramute
1972 Mosrite Celebrity-III
1977 Gibson MK-53
1982 Fender Bullet
1994 Gretsch Streamliner G3155 Custom
2005 Gibson Les Paul Standard Plus
2006 Jude Les Paul 12 String

User avatar
panther
Top Producer
Posts: 808
Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 8:31 pm
Location: Anza, California
Contact:

Re: What are these?

Postby panther » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:23 am

Very interesting. I hope Sarah can find something.

Dan
"The More People I Meet, The More I Miss My Dog"

User avatar
101Volts
Master Contributor
Posts: 2168
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:33 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: What are these?

Postby 101Volts » Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:46 pm

It's interesting that the Ventures shaped model has a bound neck and sunburst headstock but has the input jack on the pickguard. We need more photos to identify it better;

1: The vibrato unit (tailpiece) so we can see if it says "Vibramute" or "Moseley" where you'd put the strings in it;
2: The serial number (if it's there) between the highest frets;
3: The back of the guitar (to see if it's set neck or if it has a neck plate and, if it has a plate, what it's shaped like;)
4: If it's a bolt-on neck, detune the guitar and remove the neck to look inside; there should be more numbers and maybe dates stamped both on the neck and in the neck pocket which can help us ID the guitar. You may need to remove the neck pickup to remove the neck.

Please also take photos in these same locations on the Celebrity model if it has a bolt-on neck.

- Austin
1966 Ventures II (German Carve, B670)
1970s "Not a Bluesbender" Body 1 - "Long Neck Rout"
1970s "Not a Bluesbender" Body 2
1976 Brass Rail Deluxe #10
1990s/Early 2000s Riff: ES-335 Copy
2013 Fender Pawn Shop Bass VI

User avatar
VincentW
Regular Member
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:39 pm
Contact:

Re: What are these?

Postby VincentW » Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:51 pm

I think the Ventures model dates from the first part of the 70s, judging from the logo on the headstock. It's a beautiful guitar. The Celebrity is probably from the same period, the logo looks quite rare to me. The pickups don't look like standard Mosrite to me.

zeta
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:54 am
Contact:

Re: What are these?

Postby zeta » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:55 pm


zeta
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:54 am
Contact:

Re: What are these?

Postby zeta » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:17 pm

101Volts wrote:It's interesting that the Ventures shaped model has a bound neck and sunburst headstock but has the input jack on the pickguard. We need more photos to identify it better;

1: The vibrato unit (tailpiece) so we can see if it says "Vibramute" or "Moseley" where you'd put the strings in it;
2: The serial number (if it's there) between the highest frets;
3: The back of the guitar (to see if it's set neck or if it has a neck plate and, if it has a plate, what it's shaped like;)
4: If it's a bolt-on neck, detune the guitar and remove the neck to look inside; there should be more numbers and maybe dates stamped both on the neck and in the neck pocket which can help us ID the guitar. You may need to remove the neck pickup to remove the neck.

Please also take photos in these same locations on the Celebrity model if it has a bolt-on neck.

- Austin


I kind of just reread this, gonna blame it on my ADD but I hope I got all the pictures you've asked however; I'm a little terrified to open this guitar, lol... It's so sentimental to me :'(

User avatar
Sarah93003
Master Contributor
Posts: 3727
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:26 pm
Location: Westlake Village, CA
Contact:

Re: What are these?

Postby Sarah93003 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:24 am

zeta wrote:Hello,

I have taken some more pictures of the guitars below. I also went to a local guitar shop and they said they believe the Celebrity to be just a Celebrity 3. They said they think the Mosrite is a Mark 1 but their guide goes by the number of screws? and the colour of the Mosrite and they couldn't find a cherryburst/red model for it. They suggested I take it to or at least send photos to a place called Norm's Rare Guitars to see what's up with it. Thank you all again <3!




Hi Zeta,

I am 100% certain your Celebrity is NOT a Celebrity-III. The CE-III are thinline bodies, with a single layer binding and no binding on the neck. Your guitar looks to me to be a Celebrity-I. If you would, please measure the thickness of the bout. Yours looks to be between 2 and 3 inches thick. Here are my observations.

1. The headstock is an unusual shape. It looks to me like someone cut out the usually little "M" we see on Mosrite necks. This is more noticeable from the rear. The diamond Japanese tuners are commonly found on Celebrities.

Image

Now picture this headstock with the "M" removed.

Image


The logo I have seen on at least one other guitar and perhaps two. Since it say's "Moseley of California", I am of the opinion that when Semie lost the rights to the Mosrite name and logo for a period of time that he may have come up with this version in the interim.

2. The serial number is normally stamped into the fretboard between the last two frets. I'm wondering if you can do a pencil rubbing of yours? I can just faintly see a serial in the photo. When I tilt my laptop zoomed in on the S/N, I can see the letter "A" and 3-4 numbers.

Image

Here you can also see the multilayerd binding that are not on the CE-III.

3. I have not seen the pickup selector in this particular location. When there is no control panel it is usually at the treble side horn.

Image

The Mosrite roller bridge happens to be a for a 12 string. Also, it looks to me like someone did a little cutting on the pickguard, around the pickup.

Image

This bout looks pretty thick and is not a CE-III. I don't know what the odd spacer is under the pickguard.

Image


That's it for now!
____________________
1965 Mosrite Celebrity Prototype with Vibramute
1972 Mosrite Celebrity-III
1977 Gibson MK-53
1982 Fender Bullet
1994 Gretsch Streamliner G3155 Custom
2005 Gibson Les Paul Standard Plus
2006 Jude Les Paul 12 String

User avatar
Sarah93003
Master Contributor
Posts: 3727
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:26 pm
Location: Westlake Village, CA
Contact:

Re: What are these?

Postby Sarah93003 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:59 am

More thoughts. When I posted that last night I was about 2 hours past my bedtime so please excuse typos, etc.

Another reason I think the little Mosrite "M" was removed from the top of the headstock is the binding around the headstock. This is not a normal feature on a Mosrite Celebrity. I think Semie, or someone else, removed the little "M" and then needed to put binding around it to perhaps cover up a blemish or just wanted to do something different.


Image

Here is an example of a another modified headstock.

Image

I have read that when Mosrite went bankrupt in February, 1969 the authorities locked up the doors. Then there was an auction of all of the inventory to cover debts. Semie and Andy Moseley, along with other prominent employees attended the auction and bought barrels of parts. We know that some guitars were made from these parts. Even Semie made guitars after the auction from these parts and I know from speaking with Andy he was still selling this inventory on eBay up to when he passed away and I believe his son continued to do so.

This guitar I am convinced has a neck for a Celebrity-I, hence the letter A serial number prefix. If Semie built this guitar it would make sense to me he was deciding what to do about losing the Mosrite logo and came up with the "square M" moseley, and experimented with losing the little "M" on the top of the headstock which is a very strong Mosrite trait. It is quite likely this guitar was made specifically for someone and if they asked to have the pickup selector located near the knobs that is something Semie would have done.

It's hard to tell if the Gibson humbuckers were used at the time of the build or a later modification. It would be very interesting to find out the date of these if that is possible. Either way, someone had to slightly modify the pickguard to accommodate them.

The back of the neck being darker than the body is curious to me. We don't see this type of mismatch with the Celebrities. For a blonde, or natural body I would expect to see a natural color neck. In fact, even with Celebrities with a body color, such as red, green, or blue, we see natural necks. This neck looks like it was painted for a sunburst body, giving further notion to an auction build. This neck also has the tiny fret markers as opposed to the larger ones that came in the later 1973-74 era.

This is what I would expect as a color combination between the neck and the body. ( I don't know who the man is).

Image


The side jack Celebrities didn't come until after the 1969 bankruptcy era. We see these on 1972-1974 Celebrities. The white material on the side jack plate and the white pickguard is also unusual for the natural finished Celebrities. All of the examples I've seen had tortoise color, not white or W-B-W. (see the guitar above)

The knobs are what we call "tall hat knobs" that we see on 1972 and later guitars. They are taller in profile and do not have a "V" and "T" as the first generation did.

I think this guitar is a transition piece or custom build for someone. I would sure like to see a pencil rubbing of the serial number or if you can actually read it, let us know what it is.
____________________
1965 Mosrite Celebrity Prototype with Vibramute
1972 Mosrite Celebrity-III
1977 Gibson MK-53
1982 Fender Bullet
1994 Gretsch Streamliner G3155 Custom
2005 Gibson Les Paul Standard Plus
2006 Jude Les Paul 12 String


Return to “INTRODUCTION: Please Start Here”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests