hardprom, bluebill & LtDave's Leo Tribute

hardprom
Regular Member
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:13 pm
Location: Idaho
Contact:

hardprom, bluebill & LtDave's Leo Tribute

Postby hardprom » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:50 pm

Hello to you all. I just signed on here a couple of days ago primarily because I'm involved in in very beginning stages of a build project that is essentially a close (but not exact) replica of a Mosrite "Joe Maphis" 12/6 doubleneck. I've had an affection for Mosrites for some time once I got past my British Invasion elitism...being a huge fan of the British Invasion-era bands and the American groups that followed suit, most of my interest in guitars centered around the guitars that those bands were known for...Rickenbackers, Gretsches, Gibsons, Epiphones, these were the weapons that grabbed my attention. Mosrites and Fenders were "surf/hotrod/west coast" guitars, and I didn't want to know. Until a very good friend and guitarist in the best local band I've ever heard suddenly traded off his Gretsch Country Club for a Mosrite doubleneck, and for me, that was all it took.

Anyway, when I signed up on the introduction page ("Hello from yet another newbie!") a couple of the fine folks here encouraged me to post some photos of the project as it progresses. I spoke with they other two guys involved, who are wonderful characters who I have become acquainted with online over at the Beat Gear Cavern so as not to violate any privacy issues, and they said it would be fine with them to use whatever photos they'd posted over there along with their screen names in a thread over here to show the guitar as it progresses. You'll see several photos that you recognize, possibly even photos of some of your own guitars that we've gleaned from internet sources in order to be as accurate as possible or to solve some question or other as the project gets underway...So here goes:

1/16/10
bluebill: Dave and I got to talking about the Special build we're doing and through the magic of the internet we ended up with another project. The person that wanted this is a board member and when Dave and I agreed a package soon arrived in the mail. This build is for our good friend Hardprom.
Can we build a guitar around these?

Image
Looks good so far how had can this be? Then I started unfolding all the paper in the package.
Image

Image

Image
Well this is interesting. Dave and I agreed and I got to thinking about the aluminum foundry I built. I haven't used it yet and so this would be a good time to work a mold. First to make a Trem. I need a pattern.
Image
Trim it out and transfer to wood.
Image

Image
Start cleaning it up.
Image
This will take some time. The fillets will be filled in with wood putty and there is some routing to be done. This is a tribute build that will not be mistaken for a Mosrite. This guitar will be a double neck 6 and 12 string Wallace. I hope Mike chimes in on the reasons. You will see us make some errors and recover from them. Mike has detailed the plans and given us more to work from than we could ever do ourselfs. He even patterned the pickguards. Stay tuned!

LtDave32: The casting stage is all Bill. I don't come into the film until the third act.

There's quite a bit of to-do with this build, and I'll be looking forward to see what develops in the fertile mind of my buddy bluebill. He's the most "can do" fellow I know.

Ever hear the expression "If you want to run faster, run with a faster pack"? ..Working with Bill is keeping me moving forward!


question: Bill, will this be a lost wax or sand casting? You've got some cajones taking on this project.

bluebill: This will be a sand cast. There is a guy named XXXXXXX that makes these and so why not? When I get the mold shaped I'll be adding a bit to it for shrinkage. 7% is about what I'm looking at. The way the string holes are cut for the Vibramute is really neat. They are not in line but staggered like it was for compensation.
Interesting things about the Mosrite. He worked for Ric for a while and that's where he picked up the German carve. It is a smaller German carve but I think I have a couple of knifes to make it work. The strings on the headstock "ride" on the tuners. There are a lot of little things that make this a unique guitar. Mike wants the scale to feel like his Ric which means it will have the Ric. width and length.
Stage 3 as Dave calls it is the finish. He will be sanding and painting the burst and the neck and doing the final set up. Mike has been very active in this project as well getting the Pick-ups, straplocks, neckplates, tuners and plans. If you want to see accuracy have Mike measure something. He figured out the angle of the two necks as they seperate not only in degrees but down to the minutes.


hardprom: Wow! This is my first peek into the inner sanctum at the doubleneck project, which, at Bill's urging, I will now try to explain. The roots of this guitar go back to 1966 or thereabouts when my good friend, musical near-savant and every local girl's heartthrob, Leo Lawrence of "The Quirks" who I still consider to be the best local band ever, got a Mosrite "Joe Maphis" doubleneck to replace his Gretsch Country Club because the band needed someone to play a 12-string in many of the songs they played. The Mosrite doubleneck remains one of only two doublenecks that appeal to me aesthetically as well as sonically...the Rickenbacker being the other, but based on looks alone, to me the Ric comes in second.

Leo in 1967:

Image
Leo died in a car accident on the night of Christmas eve 1978(?) just a couple of months after making tentative plans with me to start a band and move it up to the Spokane, Wa. area...

Fast forward to 2008/2009/2010. I'm in a British-Invasion rock & roll band, and about 70% of our songs are 12-string tunes, necessitating several guitar changes throughout the night. We're able to mask the changes pretty well, but occasionally there's some unavoidable dead air while I'm switching between guitars, and I started considering the convenience that a doubleneck might afford. None of the Mosrites are anywhere near affordable these days, and forget the Rickenbacker, entirely...so I started thinking about modifying a Jay Turser doubleneck, or getting a tele doubleneck kit as a project (something I'm almost entirely unequipped to do) and reshaping it...so I called our old pal LtDave to get his best guess as to an avenue to take. Dave said "That sounds like a fun project, Mike...but if you don't mind, I'd like to bring Bill in on this one?"...and that's essentially how it got started. It sort of took on a life of its own as soon as these two wonderful bundles of energy, LtDave and bluebill got hold of it. I'm very excited...to have one fabulous guitar built by my Kentish brother jimi43 is more than I deserve, but like Bill said to me the other day, "Ginger needs company!" and so she will. It's just a real fun and important thing to me that Ginger and this doubleneck are made for me, to my specifications, by people with whom I have a prior (and affectionate) relationship. And it's a humbling thing, as well...the BGC continues to be a source of amazement to me...never mind the depth of enthusiasm and talent to be found here.

As to this comment Bill made:

"This is a tribute build that will not be mistaken for a Mosrite. This guitar will be a double neck 6 and 12 string Wallace. I hope Mike chimes in on the reasons."

The guitar will look just like a Mosrite "Joe Maphis" until you study the headstocks. I never want to be accused of trying to pass this guitar off as something it's not, so on the headstocks
Image
where you see the "M" in the badge, instead, it'll be a "W" and "wallace of Idaho" will replace "mosrite of California" in the identical style of the original...and at the end of the 6-string headstock, where you see the legend "Joe Maphis model", it will instead read "Leo Lawrence model" in honor of my friend who continues to be an inspiration to me and many of us who grew up musically watching "The Quirks" and hoping to one day be that good. I'm still trying.

So this guitar will join that beautiful tele that jimi43 built for me as family legacies, and will be handed down to my daughter and son (haven't figured out who gets what, and I hope that doesn't become important anytime soon), and I know my kids will treasure them as much as I do.

Again, I can't thank Bill and Dave enough for taking on this project. It wasn't expected, but it certainly is appreciated. They're both so meticulous that I have no doubt the result will be jaw-dropping...and now I've gotta try to figure out where to look for a case for the damned thing! heck...I've gotta try to be involved somehow!


question: The more I look at that trem bridge combo, the more intrigued I become. I don't know anything about the unit though. In fact I've never seen one before. what's the deal with it? does it function and hold tune well? It looks like a fulcrum tremolo, is that right?
How are you going to do the headstock logo/art work? Are you going to have a wateslide or a silk screen made? And what kind of PU's are they? They look rather P90ish.


bluebill: The headstock will be silkscreened. The Trem unit is kind of unique. When I cast I'll be making 3 units to make sure I get a good unit. It's not a project to do more than once. We just kind of liked the challange. I'll post a pic of a completed trem unit later.

The "guide"

Image

This really is a 3 man build. Mike has really detailed it out for us. Here is the 2nd part of the trem. It's rough right now and the putty is drying on the base. I had to build a router sled for the shaving of the base but it is a true 1/4" with the inset cut .15".
Image

Image

Rounding off the edges and putty it up for finish is all that's left. Then it's casting time. I'll be casting the arm as well. This is fun!

Image

Image

Image
Like I said this is the "rough" stage. I still have a lot of details to do to it.

LtDave32: You go, Bill!! Outstanding!

Bill is most right about this being a 3-man project, with Mike providing a seemingly endless effort towards research and development of this project. What you don't know is that these two fellows have been back and forth with a ton of "ground work", emails and phone calls, mapping out every detail and hashing out all the loose ends, and have provided me with all the details of their efforts. Mike is a very precise guy with an eye for detail. He's been combing the 'bay for Mosrite pickups, and so far he's been successful. He's got a couple more to go, but we're confident he will prevail. The evidence Bill has provided us with casting his own vibrato talilpiece leaves me humbled. Leave it to an engineer. What an engineer doesn't have or can't get, he will engineer. Bill puts the "Do" in "DIY".

Like previously posted, I'm not scheduled to come in on this until it's finish time, but let me tell them both here that I'm quite willing to do some neck, fret and body work on this if they need me. ..And I see some neck binding is in order as well!

To tell you the truth, I'm quite honored to be "in the loop" with these talented, bright guys.


1/17/10
question: Make it really different and string the 12 string side the Ric way.
Is that possible?


hardprom: It'll have the same neck specs (and stringing) as my Ric 360/12 and my 620/6...I didn't want these guitars to feel different than the Rickenbackers.

bluebill: Thanks for the encouragement guys. The casting is on hold for weather. I'll be working on the arm later today. I’ve worked with metal and love doing this kind of stuff. Doing a sand cast isn’t that difficult but it is dangerous. I’ll be using a homemade propane burner and furnace. The temperatures and dangers of the sand casting are not to be taken lightly. I don’t play music for a living and I know that burning myself is a very high probably. Molten aluminum is not something to take lightly! The safety comes first. I’ll take pictures of the casting as it is being poured.

hardprom: Neckplates and pickups are either in hand, within the crosshairs or on the way...knobs are still a bit of a question mark (I suppose we could go with the standard Mosrite knobs and pretend the "M" stands for "Mike"?), pots and switches are about to be secured...Tuners will be mini-Grovers instead of Klusons.

1/18/10
bluebill: I was hoping to do more this week but I just got told to go to Edwards Airforce Base for the rest of the week. I have to leave in the morning so I'm busy getting travel ready. Figures it's raining down there!

question: Mini Grovers are nice, but 18 of them will add extra weight to the guitar.

hardprom: Here's what it comes out to...
After reading XXXX's post, I decided to do some checking, so I took examples of the mini-Grovers, the Klusons, and for good measure Schallers to a local coin & gold dealer the weigh on their scale for comparison's sake...

The weight of 18 mini-Grovers comes to 383.4 dtw, which comes to 21.03 oz,

The weight of 18 Klusons totals 322.2 dtw, or 17.67 oz...

So, it's a difference of only 3.36 oz, or 0.21 lb. I say "only" because this is a guitar that's probably going to weigh in at 36 or 35 tons, so the additional (less than a quarter of a pound) weight is, I think worth it to have what I consider to be superior tuning machines...as for the aforementioned "neck-dive", well that comes with the turf. I've never picked up a doubleneck that didn't have that issue...heck, Hofner Beatle basses do that!

Oh, the Schallers came in at 372.6 dtw...20.44 oz.

...my point being, I guess, that two-tenths of a pound on this particular guitar will not be a make-or-break situation. It's really a pretty minor thing to me.


And that's where it sits as of today. Bill has gone back to his home in Washington state and has told me that he'll be going out Monday to select the wood for the guitar's body. They have one guitar that they're currently building, so work on this one will happen sporadically for awhile, but I'll try to keep this thread updated as it progresses.
Thanks for taking the time to wade through this, and I hope I haven't put too many of you to sleep.

Mike
Image Image Image
(Don't ever leave a harp on the top of your amp or the faeries will have it.)

User avatar
MWaldorf
Site Admin
Posts: 3264
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 1:21 pm
Location: Alameda, California
Contact:

Re: hardprom, bluebill & LtDave's Leo Tribute

Postby MWaldorf » Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:28 pm

Mike,

Thanks so much for sharing this - it looks like a great project and tribute to a dear friend.

Mel
Oy vey - it's MESHUGGA BEACH PARTY - The world's premier Jewish Surf Music Band!

Image

What? Couldn't tell the logo is a link? So click here, what's the hold up? http://www.meshuggabeachparty.com

User avatar
brutus
Top Producer
Posts: 562
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: IOWACITY IA.
Contact:

Re: hardprom, bluebill & LtDave's Leo Tribute

Postby brutus » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:07 pm

Leo looks like he was one hip dude. I bet he blew some minds when he pulled out the D.N.M.!! Your build looks like it will be a great guitar and superb tribute. Looking forward to some progress shots.

User avatar
Veenture
Master Contributor
Posts: 4127
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:07 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: hardprom, bluebill & LtDave's Leo Tribute

Postby Veenture » Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:53 am

Another great build thread; very detailed and entertaining at the same time. Looking forward to it's outcome but especially the various stages of progression.
Thank you Mike (and friends!) ;)

BTW, what's the story of the St. Andrews flag in your sig?

Cheers,

Mc. Veenture :D

hardprom
Regular Member
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:13 pm
Location: Idaho
Contact:

Re: hardprom, bluebill & LtDave's Leo Tribute

Postby hardprom » Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:55 am

Mr Veenture wrote:

BTW, what's the story of the St. Andrews flag in your sig?


That (as well as the Lion Rampant on the other side) is just tip of the cap to my Scottish ancestry...something my father has always been very proud of and made certain that we remembered and honored. Our people settled in what is now Stewart County, Tn in the 1700's, and Dad moved farther west in the early '50s followed by his brothers a couple of years later. The sisters all stayed east. Stewart County still has more Wallaces per square mile than any place outside of Scotland herself, as far as I can tell.
Image Image Image
(Don't ever leave a harp on the top of your amp or the faeries will have it.)

User avatar
Veenture
Master Contributor
Posts: 4127
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:07 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: hardprom, bluebill & LtDave's Leo Tribute

Postby Veenture » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:20 am

hardprom wrote:Stewart County still has more Wallaces per square mile than any place outside of Scotland herself, as far as I can tell.
heh, heh, the Scots are just like the Dutch...you find 'em everywhere! :mrgreen:
Thank you me-laddy and the best of Scottish luck with your build ;)

hardprom
Regular Member
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:13 pm
Location: Idaho
Contact:

Re: hardprom, bluebill & LtDave's Leo Tribute

Postby hardprom » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:34 am

Thanks. It's appreciated.
Image Image Image
(Don't ever leave a harp on the top of your amp or the faeries will have it.)

bluebill
Regular Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:40 pm
Location: Washington
Contact:

Re: hardprom, bluebill & LtDave's Leo Tribute

Postby bluebill » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:05 pm

There might be a lot of Wallaces but there is only one Mike!

hardprom
Regular Member
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:13 pm
Location: Idaho
Contact:

Re: hardprom, bluebill & LtDave's Leo Tribute

Postby hardprom » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:23 pm

Now, if we can just drag LtDave43 in here kicking and screaming...
Image Image Image
(Don't ever leave a harp on the top of your amp or the faeries will have it.)

ltdave32
Regular Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Re: hardprom, bluebill & LtDave's Leo Tribute

Postby ltdave32 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:58 pm

Hey, I'm here..

To answer some previous posts; Yes, we intend to document this build both in photograph and text in great detail.

My particular contribution to this build doesn't come in until the last third of the build, including fretting, finishing and assembly.

Mike and Bill, if you guys need me for other steps of the build, I'm there for you, but you already know that..


Return to “Mosrite & Clone, Projects, Parts & Accessories Q&A”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 96 guests