Do I have a KuroKumo or Fillmore Mosrite THE VENTURES model bass?

Eduardo Aguilu

Do I have a KuroKumo or Fillmore Mosrite THE VENTURES model bass?

Postby Eduardo Aguilu » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:03 am

Help! I am so confused. I thought my bass was a 1990 copy by KuroKumo in Japan of a '63-'65. I came to that conclusion from the various posts by KuroKumo owners here on this forum. My bass didn't come with papers so I relied on descriptions posted by member here, on the forum. My bass is on ebay and I have it listed as by KuroKumo. But now I'm not sure if it is a KK or a Fillmore. The only thing I see different is that no one seems to have a KK or Fillmore bass with the back plate saying Mosrite as mine has. It does have a (meaningless?) serial number and the pickup cover says M mosrite.

Is there any member here that has the necessary knowledge as to tell the difference? I am not able to remove the pick guard due to a frozen screw so that is a problem in case the pots would help.

Eduardo Aguilu

Re: Do I have a KuroKumo or Fillmore Mosrite THE VENTURES model bass?

Postby Eduardo Aguilu » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:17 am

Please ignore my post as I just found a sold listing at Reverb for a '66 model and the back plate says M mosrite. That's good enough for me.

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Re: Do I have a KuroKumo or Fillmore Mosrite THE VENTURES model bass?

Postby 101Volts » Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:45 pm

Eduardo Aguilu wrote:Please ignore my post as I just found a sold listing at Reverb for a '66 model and the back plate says M mosrite. That's good enough for me.


I'm not the most keen on Japanese Mosrite copies or Mosrite guitars in their last 5 years up to Semie's death but in 1990, Mosrite might have been putting that same stamp into their neck plates. I think at least some of the Gospel models (not the Mark Vs) were like this.

- Austin
1966 Ventures II German Carve B670 (Over B641; Misprint)
1970s Blues Bender Body 1 - "Funnily Routed Body"
1970s Blues Bender Body 2
1976 Brass Rail Deluxe #10
1990s/Early 2000s Riff: ES-335 Copy
2013 Fender Pawn Shop Bass VI

Eduardo Aguilu

Re: Do I have a KuroKumo or Fillmore Mosrite THE VENTURES model bass?

Postby Eduardo Aguilu » Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:55 pm

101Volts wrote:
Eduardo Aguilu wrote:Please ignore my post as I just found a sold listing at Reverb for a '66 model and the back plate says M mosrite. That's good enough for me.


I'm not the most keen on Japanese Mosrite copies or Mosrite guitars in their last 5 years up to Semie's death but in 1990, Mosrite might have been putting that same stamp into their neck plates. I think at least some of the Gospel models (not the Mark Vs) were like this.

- Austin

Thanks for that, Austin. Based on your reply I went searching, first at Google Images. From there I went to Ed Roman, Reverb, Heritage Auctions, etc. It seems they all featured Mark Vs which have 4 screws only. I tried searching for Mark IVs and they are as rare as hen's teeth! Only Kurt Kobain's was found and no photos of the back. I've looked at thousands, and I mean thousands!, of Mosrites, all models, all years and, except for the KuroKumo at Reverb, found no Mosrites with Mosrite on the neck plate. So, to me, it looks like KuroKumo was the only manufacturer to do it. BTW, Fillmores Mosrite THE VENTURES mocel basses look just a little nicer than KuroKumos.

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Re: Do I have a KuroKumo or Fillmore Mosrite THE VENTURES model bass?

Postby 101Volts » Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:57 pm

Eduardo Aguilu wrote:
101Volts wrote:
Eduardo Aguilu wrote:Please ignore my post as I just found a sold listing at Reverb for a '66 model and the back plate says M mosrite. That's good enough for me.


I'm not the most keen on Japanese Mosrite copies or Mosrite guitars in their last 5 years up to Semie's death but in 1990, Mosrite might have been putting that same stamp into their neck plates. I think at least some of the Gospel models (not the Mark Vs) were like this.

- Austin

Thanks for that, Austin. Based on your reply I went searching, first at Google Images. From there I went to Ed Roman, Reverb, Heritage Auctions, etc. It seems they all featured Mark Vs which have 4 screws only. I tried searching for Mark IVs and they are as rare as hen's teeth! Only Kurt Kobain's was found and no photos of the back. I've looked at thousands, and I mean thousands!, of Mosrites, all models, all years and, except for the KuroKumo at Reverb, found no Mosrites with Mosrite on the neck plate. So, to me, it looks like KuroKumo was the only manufacturer to do it. BTW, Fillmores Mosrite THE VENTURES mocel basses look just a little nicer than KuroKumos.


The "Mark IV;' Is that even an official name? Maybe. It was the Ventures II (Unofficially called the "German Carve version") originally, then it was the Mark V then Mosrite went into bankruptcy in 1969 and they used the Gospel name to sell some guitars. Cobain's "Mark IV" might actually be a "Mark IV" officially if Mosrite had no rights to name it "Mark V" but I've never heard of anything official to confirm it. IN the 1969-1970 Bankruptcy period Mosrite supposedly left letters in the guitar cases the guitars came in; that would be official but I've never seen a letter like that.

And no, Cobain's isn't the only Gospel Mark V ever found; those pages never updated their news. There are at least 3 more. Cobain's is B1697 and the other 3 are B1689, B1695 and B1700. Before that, the highest serial number for a Mark V I've ever heard is B1680. I got all these numbers here:

https://hang10.de/lists/mosrite-venture ... l-numbers/

I should be a little more specific; I think some Mosrites (under the Gospel name) from 1990 (when Mosrite had their name but just wanted to make some models for churches but not with the Mark V body shape) may have actually had an M in the neck plate. I'm not sure the neck plates say Mosrite, though.

- Austin
1966 Ventures II German Carve B670 (Over B641; Misprint)
1970s Blues Bender Body 1 - "Funnily Routed Body"
1970s Blues Bender Body 2
1976 Brass Rail Deluxe #10
1990s/Early 2000s Riff: ES-335 Copy
2013 Fender Pawn Shop Bass VI

Eduardo Aguilu

Re: Do I have a KuroKumo or Fillmore Mosrite THE VENTURES model bass?

Postby Eduardo Aguilu » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:08 pm

101Volts wrote:
Eduardo Aguilu wrote:
101Volts wrote:
The "Mark IV;' Is that even an official name? Maybe. It was the Ventures II (Unofficially called the "German Carve version") originally, then it was the Mark V then Mosrite went into bankruptcy in 1969 and they used the Gospel name to sell some guitars. Cobain's "Mark IV" might actually be a "Mark IV" officially if Mosrite had no rights to name it "Mark V" but I've never heard of anything official to confirm it. IN the 1969-1970 Bankruptcy period Mosrite supposedly left letters in the guitar cases the guitars came in; that would be official but I've never seen a letter like that.

And no, Cobain's isn't the only Gospel Mark V ever found; those pages never updated their news. There are at least 3 more. Cobain's is B1697 and the other 3 are B1689, B1695 and B1700. Before that, the highest serial number for a Mark V I've ever heard is B1680. I got all these numbers here:

https://hang10.de/lists/mosrite-venture ... l-numbers/

I should be a little more specific; I think some Mosrites (under the Gospel name) from 1990 (when Mosrite had their name but just wanted to make some models for churches but not with the Mark V body shape) may have actually had an M in the neck plate. I'm not sure the neck plates say Mosrite, though.

- Austin

I don't know if "Mark IV" is an official name but Eastwood has: [Mosrite Mark IV Tribute - The 1960's Mosrite Mark IV was a very rare guitar. Not many were out there, but most notably was the one owned by Kurt Cobain. When his Mark IV sold, the auction estimate was $75,000. It was sold on April 27, 2004 at the Dallas Guitar Show at a closing price of $117,500. The second auction ended on April 14, 2006. The closing price was $131,450.

Our tribute to this cool guitar will have a few modern upgrades, most notably a Jazzmaster style tremolo with a roller bridge.]

BTW, if you haven't viewed my bass at ebay, here's the URL: https://www.ebay.com/itm/323607815162?s ... 1555.l2648

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Re: Do I have a KuroKumo or Fillmore Mosrite THE VENTURES model bass?

Postby 101Volts » Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:54 pm

Eduardo Aguilu wrote:
101Volts wrote:
Eduardo Aguilu wrote:

I don't know if "Mark IV" is an official name but Eastwood has: [Mosrite Mark IV Tribute - The 1960's Mosrite Mark IV was a very rare guitar. Not many were out there, but most notably was the one owned by Kurt Cobain. When his Mark IV sold, the auction estimate was $75,000. It was sold on April 27, 2004 at the Dallas Guitar Show at a closing price of $117,500. The second auction ended on April 14, 2006. The closing price was $131,450.

Our tribute to this cool guitar will have a few modern upgrades, most notably a Jazzmaster style tremolo with a roller bridge.]

BTW, if you haven't viewed my bass at ebay, here's the URL: https://www.ebay.com/itm/323607815162?s ... 1555.l2648


Eastwood's marketing the guitar to Nirvana fans who know it as a "Mark IV" and most who may have no idea about the Mark V. Dunno if Eastwood know what the original guitar's called or not but they copy other relatively obscure Mosrite guitars so it would seem odd if they don't.

I see the neck plate on your Bass. Honestly, that's the first I've seen this kind of stamp (similar to the headstock logo) on a neck plate (again, I'm not that familiar with the Japanese reissues and copies.) The 1990/91 Mosrite Gospel models I'm thinking of (in shape of Ventures models) had larger Ms on the plates in the middle and were 90 degrees different, clockwise.

- Austin
1966 Ventures II German Carve B670 (Over B641; Misprint)
1970s Blues Bender Body 1 - "Funnily Routed Body"
1970s Blues Bender Body 2
1976 Brass Rail Deluxe #10
1990s/Early 2000s Riff: ES-335 Copy
2013 Fender Pawn Shop Bass VI

Eduardo Aguilu

Re: Do I have a KuroKumo or Fillmore Mosrite THE VENTURES model bass?

Postby Eduardo Aguilu » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:12 am

Here' another clue which throws a monkey wrench into the puzzle and which sent me on visual chase. First:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/mosrite-THE-VENTURES-Electric-Guitar-Ref-No-1926/173679322084?hash=item28701823e4:g:hDcAAOSwfvtcBOIT:rk:1:pf:0
The listing description says:
Might be made by Kurokumo (Because the E and S letters of THE VENTURES logo are stuck together (which is typical on Kurokumo's mosrite), it may be a Kurokumo factory made)


On the headstock of the seller's guitar the E and S do touch so it looks like the seller is selling a KuroKumo. On the seller's guitar headstock the word "model" has a different style and which I think is a Japanese version.

I looked at my bass' logo and the E and S do not touch, there's a space. So the seller's claim may not be true for all KuroKumos, obviously something changed somewhere. Then I went to ebay and looked at the ebay listings of '60s made in USA Mosrite guitars and basses, copied the photos of the headstocks and compared them against my bass' logo. On the original Semie-made instruments logos the E and S do not touch. But then I noticed something else different in the logos on the word "model". Semie's and some Japanese copies have a different style of the word "model".

Here's a made in the USA logo with the separation of E and S and the standard style of the word "model"
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mosrite-65-The-Ventures-Bass-Pearl-White/183570675934?hash=item2abdaa38de:g:7nQAAOSwVIBcCNfI:rk:10:pf:0

Compare Semie's with the KuroKumo on sale, above.

Eduardo Aguilu

Re: Do I have a KuroKumo or Fillmore Mosrite THE VENTURES model bass?

Postby Eduardo Aguilu » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:31 am

I tried to add the below info but when I clicked on Submit the next page said I could no longer edit the post although I accessed an edit page! Anyway, to continue:
So this is what I think happened re: re the logos. When KuroKumo(and possibly Fillmore) started making Mosrites they stuck to the fine details. Then something happened in Japan and different processing of the logos happened. Since I have an "older" KuroKumo, newer copies received "modernized" logos. Has anyone mentioned these logo changes that you know of and where can I read about it? If not I'll take credit for the "discovery" of the change in the word "model".

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Re: Do I have a KuroKumo or Fillmore Mosrite THE VENTURES model bass?

Postby Johnny-Alien » Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:21 pm

There are lots of Japanese reissues out there and it can get confusing. If yours has a kidney shaped neckplate with mosrite stamped in it then it's a Kurokumo made instrument. They are the only ones that did that. They also used the Ventures logo at a time when Fillmore did not. That guitar listed on ebay does not appear to be a Kurokumo guitar. It's an older japanese model for sure. Either way all that talk about the logo is speculation and theory. I would not use any of that information to get details on your bass.


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