Okay, one thing that's been bugging me on this list is the constant reference to the Ventures body style Mosrite as the "Mark 1." To me, its just not exactly right. Let me explain a brief history of the guitar that we all know and love...
As best as myself or anybody else has been able to ascertain, the body shape that is most often known as the "Mark 1" or the "Ventures-style" body was developed around 1961 or 1962 when Bob Crooks of Standel wanted Semie Moseley to build some Standel guitars for him.
Now, Semie had already built some guitars for Standel around 1959 or 1960. They are basically like the Mosrite guitar I posted on the list a couple days ago, but you can tell they are slightly later because Semie learned he had to put the jack on a separate plate or the whole pickguard would break! Here's a photo of the first Mosrite-made Standel (from the Hallmark history pages, guitar and image owned by Bob Shade)
A year or two later, as the legend goes, Bob Crooks of Standel wanted a different kind of guitar. He suggested to Semie that he take the shape of a Fender Stratocaster, flip it over and trace it. Semie supposedly did just that, and then he added a little Salvador Dali fairy dust, and the famous shape that we know was born.
The only problem with this fairy tale story? There have never been any guitars from this era 1961-1962 with the Standel logo on them turn up...ever. It's possible that the first one was made as a Standel prototype, but that has yet to surface. What have turned up are a couple of these, which may be Standel prototypes, but I have also heard that these were "mistake" guitars where a young kid working for Semie accidentally sawed the "M" off the top of the headstock. Nonetheless, we can probably surmise that if a Standel prototype existed, it looked something like this. (thanks to Adam Tober for this shot, again taken in Japan at a music store on his cell phone)
Are you confused yet? Well, to make it even more convoluted, these 1961-1962 prototypes are not to be confused with a production model Standel guitar from about 1965-1966 that was a direct COPY of a Mosrite (the one seen here is a rebranded 1965 Standel guitar with the Hallmark logo)....seen here....this one's mine...
If for some strange reason you're still reading this...try to focus...this is guitar geekiness at its apex...anybody with a "real life" is free to go on with their "real life" at this point...ha ha
Around 1961 or 1962, the "Mosrite Joe Maphis Model" single-neck and double-neck guitars made their debut. This is really where the "mark 1-Ventures style" guitar came from. it is not a "Ventures prototype" as they have been called, and it was not a side line to the Ventures model. Joe Maphis, the famous country picker, was promised his own signature model guitar, and these guitars were the "Joe Maphis Model" guitar.
Here's a flyer that promotes this early model. Note the examples in this flyer have wood pickup covers. I have seen the Joe Maphis model guitars with wood pickup covers, "dog-ear" handmade pickup covers, and the well-known pickup with the rectangular surround as found on all Ventures models. I have seen about 5 or 6 of the Joe Maphis model singlenecks, and 3 or 4 of the Joe Maphis model doublenecks.
Here's a 1963 example of the Joe Maphis doubleneck. Note that it has all the features of the first Ventures model--polished aluminum "Guild" Vibramute with flip-up mute, same pickups, Guild knobs, pickguard, etc. etc. (this one used to be mine, but I sold it to Jay Rosen last year to buy another amazing guitar, it's for sale if you want it....www.jayrosen.com)
What happened next is that Nokie Edwards, guitarist for the hit recording group The Ventures, played a Joe Maphis-style model that belonged to Gene Moles, a buddy of his in Bakersfield. Nokie borrowed the guitar and the group liked the design and how it sounded. The group had been wanting to market a signature guitar and bass of their own, and they decided to ask Semie Moseley if this guitar could be the Ventures model guitar.
Semie Moseley jumped at the chance to have a hit rock & roll group endorsing his guitars. The group had a ton of capital to infuse the company with, and so for the time being Joe Maphis got shafted--his signature model was put on hold. As many of us know the Joe Maphis model name was ressurected in 1966 for a completely redesigned singleneck, doubleneck, and bass.
The next thing you know, the "Joe Maphis model" guitar is now "The Ventures" model guitar. The first few guitars shipped in late 1963. They were exactly the same as the Joe Maphis guitar, but the headstock now said "The Ventures" and they looked like this:
Now, if anybody else here on the list can supply me with better knowledge of the facts, I would appreciate it. But as near as I can tell, the first time the Ventures model guitar was called the "Mark 1" was in the 1966 Mosrite literature.
Shortly thereafter, the Ventures and Semie Moseley parted ways and the same guitar was still called the "Mark 1" in the catalog and advertising (1967-1968) but there was no reference to the Ventures.
So maybe I'm just being a nerd about this, but it seems weird to keep calling the guitar the Mark 1 when it was only known as that towards the tail end of its original production run. But I guess it does have a better ring than the "Standel-Joe Maphis-Ventures-Mark 1" style body shape! ha ha.
As before, I appreciate any corrections, comments, compliments or criticism. Please do not copy or use these images as most of them are my copyrighted images, except where I've made note.
And I hope the Mosrite geeks have enjoyed this thread.
Deke
The birth of the Mosrite Ventures guitar shape...a history
- Deke Dickerson
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- Texasbob
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Re: The birth of the Mosrite Ventures guitar shape...a history
I believe Don Rich Bought the first production "Joe Maphis" model (single neck) and Nokie bought the second. Anyone else heard that?
If it hasn't been done before, there's a reason why.
- Texasbob
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Re: The birth of the Mosrite Ventures guitar shape...a history
Texasbob wrote:I believe Don Rich Bought the first production "Joe Maphis" model (single neck) and Nokie bought the second. Anyone else heard that?
Well, I can't even really say they "bought" them. Seems to be good AR to me.
If it hasn't been done before, there's a reason why.
- sleeperNY
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Re: The birth of the Mosrite Ventures guitar shape...a history
I believe the 63 Mosrite order was:
001 Rich
002 Moles
003 Edwards
At least that is what I read.
Jim
001 Rich
002 Moles
003 Edwards
At least that is what I read.
Jim
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Re: The birth of the Mosrite Ventures guitar shape...a history
sleeperNY wrote:I believe the 63 Mosrite order was:
001 Rich
002 Moles
003 Edwards
At least that is what I read.
Jim
You are correct Jim .
What I'm still trying to find out, does S/N #001 still exist?
Is it still with the Rich Family? Is it in a Hard Rock Cafe, a
Pawn Shop, overseas????
make the Mos' of it, choose the 'rite stuff.
.........Owner of 9 Mosrites...
.....proud owner and documented:
1963 "the Ventures" Model s/n #0038
http://www.thevintagerockproject.com/
.........Owner of 9 Mosrites...
.....proud owner and documented:
1963 "the Ventures" Model s/n #0038
http://www.thevintagerockproject.com/
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Re: The birth of the Mosrite Ventures guitar shape...a history
I think the Mosrite Ventures model guitar on the back of all the Dolton LPs had a black headstock face, and the inscription said "Ventures," not "The Ventures." I've seen only one original Mosrite with those features - it also had the cast aluminum bridge with the pull-up mute, and the silver-topped Guild style knobs. And a set neck, side jack, and bound top, obviously. For whatever it's worth.
- Deke Dickerson
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Re: The birth of the Mosrite Ventures guitar shape...a history
Keep in mind that early serial numbers on Mosrites mean absolutely nothing!!!
If you look at the post I put up the other day of the "Buckaroo by Moseley" that belonged to Don Rich, I THINK that might be this "Serial #001" that you guys are dreaming about, but changed and modified later to its current state.
There were lots of other central Valley musicians that got Mosrites around this time, including Gene Davis of the Desert Stars, Dave Stogner's band, the golden cowboy Eddie Dean, the list goes on and on. It's very hard to say if those guys got the first serial numbers of the Joe Maphis models, the first serial numbers of the Ventures models, or total one-off custom creations. There were so many guitars, and so many variations.
Once the Ventures logo was on the guitar circa very late 1963, I think that the serial numbers are fairly sequential, and I've heard that Andy has a list of all the Ventures models from 1963 on, and where they went--what music dealer or what direct sale to a musician, etc.--but I haven't seen the list. I have however seen a couple of Ventures models with real oddball serial numbers.
Deke
If you look at the post I put up the other day of the "Buckaroo by Moseley" that belonged to Don Rich, I THINK that might be this "Serial #001" that you guys are dreaming about, but changed and modified later to its current state.
There were lots of other central Valley musicians that got Mosrites around this time, including Gene Davis of the Desert Stars, Dave Stogner's band, the golden cowboy Eddie Dean, the list goes on and on. It's very hard to say if those guys got the first serial numbers of the Joe Maphis models, the first serial numbers of the Ventures models, or total one-off custom creations. There were so many guitars, and so many variations.
Once the Ventures logo was on the guitar circa very late 1963, I think that the serial numbers are fairly sequential, and I've heard that Andy has a list of all the Ventures models from 1963 on, and where they went--what music dealer or what direct sale to a musician, etc.--but I haven't seen the list. I have however seen a couple of Ventures models with real oddball serial numbers.
Deke
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