What are these?

zeta
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Re: What are these?

Postby zeta » Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:00 am

I asked my father what he thought and this is what he said.

Not sure. Dad taught Semie Moseley to play the Guitar. He learned on Grandpa's 1952 Les Paul gold Top Gibson.
Every time Grandpa would go through Bakersfield, Semie would True up grandpas guitar, adjust the neck clean the body change the potentiometers I remember once it when Semie got Grandpa's guitar out of the trunk of our car. And while he and dad were talking Semie took wire cutters and cut all the strings off of Dad's Les Paul guitar and filed down the frets to make it easier for grandpa to play.
It wouldn't surprise me if Semie changed to accommodate a six string instead of a 12. I remember grandpa talking about a 12 string.
Around that time an amplifier had fallen over and cracked the neck on Grandpa's Les Paul.
Grandpa took the guitar to Semie to see if he could repair it. I'm not sure what city Semie's factory was in at that time but Grandpa and Grandma was within driving distance.
Grandpa's Les Paul had a mahogany neck on it. Semie used a different type of wood for his necks. To order The mahogany neck would've taken time, and dad needed to get term for his ministry.
Semie was making this style of guitar when Grandpa stopped in to see Semie. He built out the 6 string for dad.
I don't know if Semie changed out the neck or just used that body and added the 6 string neck to create Grandpa the guitar you have there.
Semie would do anything for Grandpa / Grandpa would do anything for Semie. They had a wonderful relationship.


Maybe that might collaborate with what you're thinking?

I also asked him about the M and he said this too, which is pretty much what you were saying.

At that time, Semie was going through a bankruptcy and couldn't use the name Mosrite. He used his personal name, Moseley. No 'M' or Mosrite logo.


I'm a bit nervous to destring the guitar, but I'm sure that's a lot easier than taking the neck off the Mosrite, lol!

Also, my father says Danna had in the last few years looked at the Mosrite's internals and he says he's trying to get the information for me. I think I'll wait for that before I event attempt removing the neck.

My friend says the serial reads A0893. I still haven't gotten a rubbing since I only have a mechanical pencil. I'll pick one up sometime soon.

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101Volts
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Re: What are these?

Postby 101Volts » Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:40 pm

I'm guessing your MK I (in Cherryburst) is a 1971 or 1972 model. Here are some key features which argue the case:

1: Cherryburst doesn't seem to be a finish in the 60s, possibly outside custom orders (common colors are Sunburst, Red, White and Blue; there were some Red/White/Blue Striped models too.)
2: The Sunburst Headstock is similar to other 70s Sunburst models;
3: The serial number has large lettering (it's smaller on 60s models and doesn't take up as much width on the fretboard; )
4: The serial Number, V0042, seems incongruous with 60s models starting with a V;
5: Truss Rod adjustment is at the headstock;
6: The tuners don't look like those used in the 60s.

I'm a little surprised this guitar still seems to have 60s style Speed Frets. Could you measure their width in thousandths of an inch? If they're original 60s style, they should be .070 wide.

As for the neck plate, I think it looks original. I only asked in case this were a 60s/70s Japanese copy (which often used a square plate; it doesn't look like it is a copy of that time period.)

There are a few more photos I'd like to see; 1, the bridge (to see whether it's a roller or non roller kind) and 2, the lettering on the tailpiece like below:

Image

- Austin
1966 Ventures II (German Carved, B670,)
1970s "Not a Blues Bender" Body 1,
1970s "Not a Blues Bender" Body 2,
1976 Brass Rail Deluxe #10,
2013 Fender Pawn Shop Bass VI.

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101Volts
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Re: What are these?

Postby 101Volts » Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:45 pm

Also, if you want to get adventurous and take the neck off the MK I then you'll have to:

1: Take off the strings;
2: Remove the neck pickup (like pictured below due to the neck extension under the pup; only, leave the one by the bridge pickup in: )

Image

3: Remove the neck (it's a bolt-on, after all; easily reassembled in most cases.)

It may look something like this:

Image

Sometimes there are no dates stamped in the neck pockets, though.

One more way to help determine its age is to look at the date codes on the potentiometers (volume and tone controls) which requires that you remove the pickguard. If you want, you can arrange all the screws (neck screws included) so they're put back just the way they were; it's not too ridiculous to do so.

- Austin
1966 Ventures II (German Carved, B670,)
1970s "Not a Blues Bender" Body 1,
1970s "Not a Blues Bender" Body 2,
1976 Brass Rail Deluxe #10,
2013 Fender Pawn Shop Bass VI.

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Gonkulator
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Re: What are these?

Postby Gonkulator » Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:44 pm

I'll have to agree with what others said on here. The Mk I is definitely from the early 70's once Semie got the name back.

The celebrity style looks to be from the period between where Semie didn't have the rights to the name but was still building guitars under Moseley and Gospel.

I've seen that logo on a Tele styled guitar that Deke Dickerson had. Image

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101Volts
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Re: What are these?

Postby 101Volts » Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:35 pm

Gonkulator wrote:I'll have to agree with what others said on here. The Mk I is definitely from the early 70's once Semie got the name back.

The celebrity style looks to be from the period between where Semie didn't have the rights to the name but was still building guitars under Moseley and Gospel.

I've seen that logo on a Tele styled guitar that Deke Dickerson had. (image snipped from quote)


Off topic but wow, I didn't realize Deke has/had this Tele style guitar. Interesting, I'm surprised Mosrite didn't put the German Carve on their 300 and 350 models considering this.

- Austin
1966 Ventures II (German Carved, B670,)
1970s "Not a Blues Bender" Body 1,
1970s "Not a Blues Bender" Body 2,
1976 Brass Rail Deluxe #10,
2013 Fender Pawn Shop Bass VI.

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Sarah93003
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Re: What are these?

Postby Sarah93003 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:35 pm

zeta wrote:I asked my father what he thought and this is what he said.

Not sure. Dad taught Semie Moseley to play the Guitar. He learned on Grandpa's 1952 Les Paul gold Top Gibson.
Every time Grandpa would go through Bakersfield, Semie would True up grandpas guitar, adjust the neck clean the body change the potentiometers I remember once it when Semie got Grandpa's guitar out of the trunk of our car. And while he and dad were talking Semie took wire cutters and cut all the strings off of Dad's Les Paul guitar and filed down the frets to make it easier for grandpa to play.
It wouldn't surprise me if Semie changed to accommodate a six string instead of a 12. I remember grandpa talking about a 12 string.
Around that time an amplifier had fallen over and cracked the neck on Grandpa's Les Paul.
Grandpa took the guitar to Semie to see if he could repair it. I'm not sure what city Semie's factory was in at that time but Grandpa and Grandma was within driving distance.
Grandpa's Les Paul had a mahogany neck on it. Semie used a different type of wood for his necks. To order The mahogany neck would've taken time, and dad needed to get term for his ministry.
Semie was making this style of guitar when Grandpa stopped in to see Semie. He built out the 6 string for dad.
I don't know if Semie changed out the neck or just used that body and added the 6 string neck to create Grandpa the guitar you have there.
Semie would do anything for Grandpa / Grandpa would do anything for Semie. They had a wonderful relationship.


Maybe that might collaborate with what you're thinking?

I also asked him about the M and he said this too, which is pretty much what you were saying.

At that time, Semie was going through a bankruptcy and couldn't use the name Mosrite. He used his personal name, Moseley. No 'M' or Mosrite logo.


I'm a bit nervous to destring the guitar, but I'm sure that's a lot easier than taking the neck off the Mosrite, lol!

Also, my father says Danna had in the last few years looked at the Mosrite's internals and he says he's trying to get the information for me. I think I'll wait for that before I event attempt removing the neck.

My friend says the serial reads A0893. I still haven't gotten a rubbing since I only have a mechanical pencil. I'll pick one up sometime soon.



Everything above makes perfect sense. Did your friend actually make out the serial number as A0893? It looks right to me as faint as I can tell.

From the above your grandfather taught Semie to play guitar, is that right? Who was your grandfather? Are you located in SoCal? I'd love to see the guitar in person if that is possible. The reason I suggested looking in the neck pocket is it is quite possible that Semie signed it there. Although, usually he does it on the headstock. Removing strings is very easy and taking the neck off and putting it back on is also very easy. Did you get a chance to measure the thickness of the bout?
____________________
1965 Mosrite Celebrity Prototype with Vibramute
1972 Mosrite Celebrity-III
1977 Gibson MK-53
1982 Fender Bullet
1994 Gretsch Streamliner G3155 Custom
2005 Gibson Les Paul Standard Plus
2006 Jude Les Paul 12 String

Eduardo Aguilu

Re: What are these?

Postby Eduardo Aguilu » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:49 pm

zeta wrote:
My friend says the serial reads A0893. I still haven't gotten a rubbing since I only have a mechanical pencil. I'll pick one up sometime soon.


A rubbing is not necessary. Your photo was taken with a flash which removed all shadows. You need to supply a standard light on either side of the neck for the letter(s)/numbers to stand out and allow the shadows to form. Check it out. Don't use flash directly and if you must, do it from either side. I can't show you examples as I can't post photos. Even though I'm a Mosrite bass fan, this is an interesting thread. If you consider selling the guitars, do it through an auction house such as Heritage as they have a large audience.

zeta
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Re: What are these?

Postby zeta » Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:36 am

Sarah93003 wrote:Everything above makes perfect sense. Did your friend actually make out the serial number as A0893? It looks right to me as faint as I can tell.

From the above your grandfather taught Semie to play guitar, is that right? Who was your grandfather? Are you located in SoCal? I'd love to see the guitar in person if that is possible. The reason I suggested looking in the neck pocket is it is quite possible that Semie signed it there. Although, usually he does it on the headstock. Removing strings is very easy and taking the neck off and putting it back on is also very easy. Did you get a chance to measure the thickness of the bout?


Yes, my friend apparently has a lot better visual acuity than I do. She also said she'd help me with the strings and the neck but we ran out of time yesterday.

I'm too young to remember my grandfather, I'm the youngest of the youngest, but he was Reverend Clarence Orville Maness and his wife was Lorene Maness. I know they had a ministry and lived somewhere in or around Los Angeles County. I only have stories passed down to me from my father, grandmother and aunts and uncles.

I do live in Southern California. I live just outside of Santa Barbara proper. We used to share the zip code in your username! If you want to make the journey from one end of your county to just north of Santa Barbara we could meet at my employer's office and use our conference room to get better lighting and with the added benefit of not having two pits wanting to help out with the guitars, lol.

I have not yet measured the guitars.

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Re: What are these?

Postby Sarah93003 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:12 pm

zeta wrote:
Sarah93003 wrote:Everything above makes perfect sense. Did your friend actually make out the serial number as A0893? It looks right to me as faint as I can tell.

From the above your grandfather taught Semie to play guitar, is that right? Who was your grandfather? Are you located in SoCal? I'd love to see the guitar in person if that is possible. The reason I suggested looking in the neck pocket is it is quite possible that Semie signed it there. Although, usually he does it on the headstock. Removing strings is very easy and taking the neck off and putting it back on is also very easy. Did you get a chance to measure the thickness of the bout?


Yes, my friend apparently has a lot better visual acuity than I do. She also said she'd help me with the strings and the neck but we ran out of time yesterday.

I'm too young to remember my grandfather, I'm the youngest of the youngest, but he was Reverend Clarence Orville Maness and his wife was Lorene Maness. I know they had a ministry and lived somewhere in or around Los Angeles County. I only have stories passed down to me from my father, grandmother and aunts and uncles.

I do live in Southern California. I live just outside of Santa Barbara proper. We used to share the zip code in your username! If you want to make the journey from one end of your county to just north of Santa Barbara we could meet at my employer's office and use our conference room to get better lighting and with the added benefit of not having two pits wanting to help out with the guitars, lol.

I have not yet measured the guitars.


Yes, I would love to see it. I work in Oxnard and get off at 3:30 each day. Weekends are fine of course. PM me your email address, or you can email me at: sarah@MosriteCelebrity.com
____________________
1965 Mosrite Celebrity Prototype with Vibramute
1972 Mosrite Celebrity-III
1977 Gibson MK-53
1982 Fender Bullet
1994 Gretsch Streamliner G3155 Custom
2005 Gibson Les Paul Standard Plus
2006 Jude Les Paul 12 String

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LoveyX
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Re: What are these?

Postby LoveyX » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:59 pm

zeta,
Thank you for posting such a great story and photos! I have been hoping to see a really interesting thread here and you nailed it...
If I may put in my two cents, you are blessed to have those guitars- they are special instruments and having them in your family is nice too.
The red one is a pretty standard issue Mark 1 from the early 70's, the redburst was a very common color scheme back then. From the pictures it looks to be in very good condition, but certainly not a prototype.
The Celebrity however may be a prototype as your dad mentioned based on the unusual headstock shape and the Moseley logo. That looks like Semie's work if I am seeing it correctly. I wonder if it started out as a 12 string and it could possibly be the one whose neck was broken and replaced? Would your dad remember anymore about it? Funny it was right around the time of the bankruptcy...
Anyway thanks to everyone, hope you're enjoying the new year!


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