Building a Mosrite Ventures II Slab Body?

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101Volts
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Re: Building a Mosrite Ventures II Slab Body?

Postby 101Volts » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:53 am

HardlyRamone wrote:This is all very useful information, thanks a ton. Hopefully I can utilize all of this. I didn't realize the 0.260 was referring to individual string to string spacing. That sounds like it's about 33mm then from E to E... isn't that the same as the Hallmark II/Johnny Ramone Signature Model? I thought those had wider string spacing than vintage examples, but I've only ever heard one source say the Hallmarks have 33mm (1.300") E to E spacing at the nut.


You're welcome. I think I forgot to tell all of the bridge specs, though; for the saddles, you'll need to drill a hole through the round brass rod. Again, the saddles are about 0.315 as a circle. The distance from the bottom of the saddle to the center of the screw hole, that's the measurement I didn't giv, and the fit between the screw hole and the bottom of the bridge needs to be a tight fit. Truthfully, the original bridge I had? Its saddles rocked back and forth with my strums, which wasn't good. I like Mosrite's "brass rod-saddled bridge," but not when it's badly made.

I'll have to get back here with that measurement from the bottom of hte saddle to the center of the screw hole. I suppose one could drill the hole and then fine-tune it by sanding down the brass until the saddle's a tight fit in the bridge, perhaps that's how it was done at the factory.

Greg_L wrote:
101Volts wrote:
Finally, if you weren't aware of this: whether or not you have a Vibrato Tailpiece on a Guitar, I suggest that for the unwound strings, you always solder the string wraps near the ball end. It lengthens string life a lot. I've been doing it for all of my unwound strings, and though the strings still break at a bridge or by the tuner, they no longer unwind themselves.

- Austin


THIS! ^^^^^^^^

I have two Mosrites and a Hallmark 60 Custom. They will all break the unwound strings (usually for me it's the little E) inside the vibrato around the ball end. A few years ago I started tinning the ball end winding on my unwound strings with solder before putting them on and it hasn't happened since.

It's a little extra work, but it's better than broken strings.


Yes, it is such a huge difference. The difference is almost like how I imagine driving a car in 1931 compared to today would be; you'd get flat tires a lot more frequently.

- Austin
1966 Ventures II (German Carved, B670,)
1970s "Not a Blues Bender" Body 1,
1970s "Not a Blues Bender" Body 2,
1976 Brass Rail Deluxe #10,
2013 Fender Pawn Shop Bass VI.

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Dino Boreanaz
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Re: Building a Mosrite Ventures II Slab Body?

Postby Dino Boreanaz » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:37 am

Since it was mentioned as a point of comparison, I got curious and took some measurements on my Hallmark Johnny Ramone and got these results:

1.310" (33.3 mm) centre-to-centre E-E at the zero fret
this makes for an average string spacing of .262" (6.66 mm) centre-to-centre between adjacent strings
2.028" (51.5 mm) centre-to-centre E-E at the bridge saddles
1.625" (41.3 mm) neck width at zero fret
2.125" (54.0 mm) neck width at end of fretboard
.085" wide x .044" tall frets

Enjoy!

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Re: Building a Mosrite Ventures II Slab Body?

Postby 101Volts » Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:55 am

Dino Boreanaz wrote:Since it was mentioned as a point of comparison, I got curious and took some measurements on my Hallmark Johnny Ramone and got these results:

1.310" (33.3 mm) centre-to-centre E-E at the zero fret
this makes for an average string spacing of .262" (6.66 mm) centre-to-centre between adjacent strings
2.028" (51.5 mm) centre-to-centre E-E at the bridge saddles
1.625" (41.3 mm) neck width at zero fret
2.125" (54.0 mm) neck width at end of fretboard
.085" wide x .044" tall frets

Enjoy!


Thanks for that. I'm surprised that the neck width is so close. What's the neck depth, though, from the back of the neck to the top of the fretboard? My Ventures II is about 0.860 from frets 1 - 13, which is where it starts tapering to be thicker, near the body end.

- Austin
1966 Ventures II (German Carved, B670,)
1970s "Not a Blues Bender" Body 1,
1970s "Not a Blues Bender" Body 2,
1976 Brass Rail Deluxe #10,
2013 Fender Pawn Shop Bass VI.

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HardlyRamone
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Re: Building a Mosrite Ventures II Slab Body?

Postby HardlyRamone » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:15 pm

Dino Boreanaz wrote:Since it was mentioned as a point of comparison, I got curious and took some measurements on my Hallmark Johnny Ramone and got these results:

1.310" (33.3 mm) centre-to-centre E-E at the zero fret
this makes for an average string spacing of .262" (6.66 mm) centre-to-centre between adjacent strings
2.028" (51.5 mm) centre-to-centre E-E at the bridge saddles
1.625" (41.3 mm) neck width at zero fret
2.125" (54.0 mm) neck width at end of fretboard
.085" wide x .044" tall frets

Enjoy!


Ah that's very cool, thank you! I have been wondering about all of that for a while.

101Volts wrote:
Dino Boreanaz wrote:Since it was mentioned as a point of comparison, I got curious and took some measurements on my Hallmark Johnny Ramone and got these results:

1.310" (33.3 mm) centre-to-centre E-E at the zero fret
this makes for an average string spacing of .262" (6.66 mm) centre-to-centre between adjacent strings
2.028" (51.5 mm) centre-to-centre E-E at the bridge saddles
1.625" (41.3 mm) neck width at zero fret
2.125" (54.0 mm) neck width at end of fretboard
.085" wide x .044" tall frets

Enjoy!


Thanks for that. I'm surprised that the neck width is so close. What's the neck depth, though, from the back of the neck to the top of the fretboard? My Ventures II is about 0.860 from frets 1 - 13, which is where it starts tapering to be thicker, near the body end.

- Austin


I'm curious about this as well, the thickness is important. I'm surprised to hear the Ventures II/Mark V neck was 0.860, I thought it would be really thin based on what I always hear. My Squier Strat neck is only 0.790" and I didn't think it was crazy thin or anything :|

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Re: Building a Mosrite Ventures II Slab Body?

Postby Dino Boreanaz » Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:09 pm

My Hallmark JR neck measures .815" (20.7 mm) thick at the 2nd fret and gradually tapers up to .905" (23.0 mm) at the 11th and 12th frets. The thickness at the 1st fret is about .835"-.845" as it tapers down from the back of the headstock. And the thickness at the 13th fret is over .940" and visibly thickening into the heel.

By the way, Hardly I really enjoy your videos. The playing, the sound, the aesthetic ... just great!

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Re: Building a Mosrite Ventures II Slab Body?

Postby HardlyRamone » Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:24 pm

Dino Boreanaz wrote:My Hallmark JR neck measures .815" (20.7 mm) thick at the 2nd fret and gradually tapers up to .905" (23.0 mm) at the 11th and 12th frets. The thickness at the 1st fret is about .835"-.845" as it tapers down from the back of the headstock. And the thickness at the 13th fret is over .940" and visibly thickening into the heel.

By the way, Hardly I really enjoy your videos. The playing, the sound, the aesthetic ... just great!


Well that's very useful! I need to get out the calipers and measure my strat neck thickness definitively, perhaps it is on the thin side. And ha thank you, I'm glad you've enjoyed the videos :D I'm just trying to put stuff out there for Ramones fans everywhere, and aspiring new guitarists who want to play those songs with the techniques Johnny Ramone used. More cool stuff on the way!

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Re: Building a Mosrite Ventures II Slab Body?

Postby SouthernVersion » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:50 pm

Dino Boreanaz wrote:Since it was mentioned as a point of comparison, I got curious and took some measurements on my Hallmark Johnny Ramone and got these results:

1.310" (33.3 mm) centre-to-centre E-E at the zero fret
this makes for an average string spacing of .262" (6.66 mm) centre-to-centre between adjacent strings
2.028" (51.5 mm) centre-to-centre E-E at the bridge saddles
1.625" (41.3 mm) neck width at zero fret
2.125" (54.0 mm) neck width at end of fretboard
.085" wide x .044" tall frets

Enjoy!



I'll have to measure my Eastwood Mach II (JR Model) and see how it compares.
Eastwood Mach II w/ Hallmark Pickups
2019 Fender MIM Precision Bass
1970's Encore Short Scale Bass
1966 Intermark Cipher Ranger
Squier Affinity Stratocaster with a Ventures I pickup

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Re: Building a Mosrite Ventures II Slab Body?

Postby 101Volts » Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:34 am

I found another post I made, where I put neck thickness specs from a Slab Ventures II, and my Carved Ventures II. This may be a bit redundant now as I've already gone over this more roughly, but if you want more detail, here it is.

Also, before the specs: the Mosrite Headstock does not taper backwards like a Gibson, it's level with the neck like a Fender. The Volute is also sizable to reduce breakage, but it's not gigantic. I suppose Semie knew what could happen to a Gibson, so he took measures to prevent that.

Also, I remember that I had forgotten to tell you the neck radius on my Ventures II: it's 10", just a bit flatter than a modern Fender.

More Detailed Neck Specs, both for the Ventures II "Slab" and "Carved" models:

Ventures II Slab (according to one individual on Facebook, whose name I have sadly forgotten: )

Width of Fretboard:

Fret:
0: Just short of 40 Mm (1.574 in.) (TBH, this is probably about 1.560, as noted below on my Carved Model.)
12th: 48.5 (1.909 in.)

Neck Thickness:

23mm (0.905 in.) - 1st fret (The Volute is near here.)
22mm (0.866 in.) - 2nd to 13th frets
23mm (0.905 in.) - 14th fret (It starts tapering to the Neck Heel around here, but it probably starts at Fret 13.)
28mm (1.1023 in.) - 15th fret (Neck Heel area)
29mm (1.1417 in.) - 16th fret (Neck Heel area)

Again, the measurements of a Slab Neck above are not from me; I got them off Facebook. The notes next to the measurements are from me, though.

Carved Ventures II (which should be about identical: )

I measured the neck thickness of my Carved Ventures II, B670, in Thousandths of an Inch. I measured right next to every fret, up to Fret 16 (which is where the neck heel and body end start, which probably differs from the Slab Ventures II.)

Note, a lot of Ventures II (Carved) models (and probably some Mark Vs) have a chafed section on the back of the neck from Frets 0 - 3. I don't know why, but I've seen it plenty of times, and mine is no exception.

Width:

1.559 at Zero Fret,
1.859 at 12th Fret,
2.045 at 22nd (highest) Fret,
2.061 at neck end.

Thickness:

1.253 - 0 fret (the large Mosrite Volute is here.)
0.880 - 1st fret (Chafed.)
0.840 - 2nd fret (Chafed.)
0.849 - 3rd fret (Chafed.)
0.850 - 4th fret
0.867 - 5th fret
0.859 - 6th
0.857 - 7th
0.850 - 8th
0.860 - 9th
0.845 - 10th
0.850 - 11th
0.860 - 12th
0.890 - 13th (the neck starts tapering to the neck heel here.)
1.001 - 14th
1.110 - 15th
1.130 - 16th fret

I couldn't measure higher, after the 16th fret, without taking the neck off the guitar. Besides, the neck construction after about that point may differ from a Slab Ventures II Neck.

There are some variations from 0.860 between frets 2 and 13, but roughly speaking, it should be about that thickness from the back of the neck to the front of the fretboard.

- Austin
1966 Ventures II (German Carved, B670,)
1970s "Not a Blues Bender" Body 1,
1970s "Not a Blues Bender" Body 2,
1976 Brass Rail Deluxe #10,
2013 Fender Pawn Shop Bass VI.

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Re: Building a Mosrite Ventures II Slab Body?

Postby 101Volts » Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:44 pm

New Measurements, 2021 - August - 31
(because wood moves, and maybe the measurements are different today: )

Measurements are taken with a digital micrometer, mostly from the top of the fretboard (Low E side,) and with the caliper horizontal to the ground, butted up against the original fret*, on the side of the fret closer to the bridge.

*Original Fret Width is 0.070: that is 70 thousandths of an inch wide. Other frets would differ, and they would move the micrometer a bit.

Neck and Fretboard Width:

Calculated just past the fret (closer to the bridge,) except where noted.

1.5470 - 0 Fret.
1.5680 - 1st Fret.
1.6110 - 2nd Fret.
1.6490 - 3rd Fret.
1.6735 - 4th Fret.
1.6985 - 5th Fret.
1.7240 - 6th Fret.
1.7490 - 7th Fret.
1.7760 - 8th Fret.
1.8000 - 9th Fret.
1.8240 - 10th Fret.
1.8450 - 11th Fret.
1.8640 - 12th Fret.
1.8825 - 13th Fret.
1.9085 - 14th Fret.
1.9380 - 15th Fret.
1.9690 - 16th Fret.
1.9950 - 17th Fret.
2.0200 - 18th Fret.
2.0380 - 19th Fret.
2.0530 - 20th Fret.
2.0690 - 21st Fret.
2.0780 - 22th Fret.
2.0890 - Fretboard End (note: this might be irrelevant to a Slab Ventures II model. I think the neck extends a bit farther on this model than a Slab Ventures II.)

Note: The back of the neck stops being "neck shaped" between frets 14 and 15; the neck heel starts in the center of the neck between the frets here on this model, and the neck heel starts tapering out sideways. It's about done tapering to a full sized neck heel between frets 16 and 17.

Also: the neck heel is actually thinner at the bottom than it is at the top of the neck, beneath the fretboard. This is not something you necessarily need to replicate, but it prevents the neck from being pulled out as easily. I'm not sure why this is a feature, but I'll compare the neck heel area, starting from Fret 16:

Bottom of Neck Heel Measurements:

1.9530 - Fret 16 (1.969 at bottom.)
1.9760 - Fret 17 (1.995 at bottom.)
1.9870 - Fret 18 (2.020 at bottom.)
2.0095 - Fret 19 (2.038 at bottom.)
2.0210 - Fret 20 (2.053 at bottom.)
2.0360 - Fret 21 (2.069 at bottom.)
2.0510 - Fret 22 (2.078 at bottom.)
2.0660 - F.B. End (2.089 at bottom.)

Fretboard Width, Near the Top (Face of the Fretboard: )

As you get close to the face of the fretboard, the Fretboard is slightly tapered away from the neck. This is 99.99% likely due to workers using long fret files on the edges of the fretboard, knocking down rough fret ends, and slightly shaving wood off, which slightly rounds it over as it gets closer to the face of the fretboard. (This is not a model that used binding, which might have gotten the same treatment.) The edges of the fretboard are slightly rounded over. Here are some measurements of that round-over, as close to the top of the fretboard as I could get (which is probably inconsistent.)

1.521 - 0 Fret.
1.542 - 1st Fret.
1.576 - 2nd Fret.
1.625 - 3rd Fret.
1.647 - 4th Fret.
1.679 - 5th Fret.

This section of measurements might be a bit silly, inaccurate, redundant, and unnecessary. Just know that you'll need to file down frets, and round over the edges of the fretboard a bit.

Total Fretboard and Neck Thickness:

1.340 - 0 Fret.
0.881 - 1st Fret (Chafed section.)
0.838 - 2nd Fret (Chafed section.)
0.848 - 3rd Fret (Chafed section.)
0.851 - 4th Fret.
0.849 - 5th Fret.
0.856 - 6th Fret.
0.850 - 7th Fret.
0.844 - 8th Fret.
0.848 - 9th Fret.
0.846 - 10th Fret.
0.843 - 11th Fret.
0.854 - 12th Fret.
0.877 - 13th Fret.
1.014 - 14th Fret.
1.125 - 15th Fret.
1.122 - 16th Fret. (Note: at this point, the sides of the neck heel seem to be not perfectly flat, but the center of the neck heel is the measurement. Or maybe I just held the micrometer a bit off kilter.)
1.1425 - 17th Fret.
1.1695 - 18th Fret.
1.1885 - 19th Fret.
1.2105 - 20th Fret.
1.234 - 21st Fret.
1.243 - 22nd Fret.

Fretboard End (measured in the middle of the fretboard, at the pinnacle of the fretboard radius: )
1.250.

Also, note: the 10" radius appears to be "tapered" towards being deeper on the Low E side of the fretboard than it is on the High E side. At the very end of the fretboard, on the sides, I checked for the thickness.

Low E Side: 1.191
High E Side: 1.225

Subtle, but I guess it helps with pressing the high strings down. However, I could not measure to my own satisfaction if this statement is accurate to the entire fretboard. Perhaps the High E side was indeed "tapered" so that the player's finger would hold a Barre Chord down easier, or perhaps not.

- Austin
1966 Ventures II (German Carved, B670,)
1970s "Not a Blues Bender" Body 1,
1970s "Not a Blues Bender" Body 2,
1976 Brass Rail Deluxe #10,
2013 Fender Pawn Shop Bass VI.

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Re: Building a Mosrite Ventures II Slab Body?

Postby 101Volts » Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:36 pm

Re-post because I made one error in writing, previously:

"Also: the neck heel is actually thinner at the bottom than it is at the top of the neck, beneath the fretboard. This is not something you necessarily need to replicate, but it prevents the neck from being pulled out as easily. I'm not sure why this is a feature, but I'll compare the neck heel area, starting from Fret 16:"

I meant to say "thicker" at that part in bold. This is now rectified. I've also made a note about fret width more clear. Now, back to the rectified reply:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Measurements are taken with a digital micrometer, mostly from the top of the fretboard (Low E side,) and with the caliper horizontal to the ground, butted up against the original fret*, on the side of the fret closer to the bridge.

*Original Fret Width is 0.070: that is 70 thousandths of an inch wide. Wider frets would differ, so they would move the micrometer a bit closer to the bridge.

Neck and Fretboard Width:

Calculated just past the fret (closer to the bridge,) except where noted.

1.5470 - 0 Fret.
1.5680 - 1st Fret.
1.6110 - 2nd Fret.
1.6490 - 3rd Fret.
1.6735 - 4th Fret.
1.6985 - 5th Fret.
1.7240 - 6th Fret.
1.7490 - 7th Fret.
1.7760 - 8th Fret.
1.8000 - 9th Fret.
1.8240 - 10th Fret.
1.8450 - 11th Fret.
1.8640 - 12th Fret.
1.8825 - 13th Fret.
1.9085 - 14th Fret.
1.9380 - 15th Fret.
1.9690 - 16th Fret.
1.9950 - 17th Fret.
2.0200 - 18th Fret.
2.0380 - 19th Fret.
2.0530 - 20th Fret.
2.0690 - 21st Fret.
2.0780 - 22th Fret.
2.0890 - Fretboard End (note: this might be irrelevant to a Slab Ventures II model. I think the neck extends a bit farther on this model than a Slab Ventures II.)

Note: The back of the neck stops being "neck shaped" between frets 14 and 15; the neck heel starts in the center of the neck between the frets here on this model, and the neck heel starts tapering out sideways. It's about done tapering to a full sized neck heel between frets 16 and 17.

Also: the neck heel is actually thicker at the bottom than it is at the top of the neck, beneath the fretboard. This is not something you necessarily need to replicate, but it prevents the neck from being pulled out as easily. I'm not sure why this is a feature, but I'll compare the neck heel area, starting from Fret 16:

Bottom of Neck Heel Measurements:

1.9530 - Fret 16 (1.969 at bottom.)
1.9760 - Fret 17 (1.995 at bottom.)
1.9870 - Fret 18 (2.020 at bottom.)
2.0095 - Fret 19 (2.038 at bottom.)
2.0210 - Fret 20 (2.053 at bottom.)
2.0360 - Fret 21 (2.069 at bottom.)
2.0510 - Fret 22 (2.078 at bottom.)
2.0660 - F.B. End (2.089 at bottom.)

Fretboard Width, Near the Top (Face of the Fretboard: )

As you get close to the face of the fretboard, the Fretboard is slightly tapered away from the neck. This is 99.99% likely due to workers using long fret files on the edges of the fretboard, knocking down rough fret ends, and slightly shaving wood off, which slightly rounds it over as it gets closer to the face of the fretboard. (This is not a model that used binding, which might have gotten the same treatment.) The edges of the fretboard are slightly rounded over. Here are some measurements of that round-over, as close to the top of the fretboard as I could get (which is probably inconsistent.)

1.521 - 0 Fret.
1.542 - 1st Fret.
1.576 - 2nd Fret.
1.625 - 3rd Fret.
1.647 - 4th Fret.
1.679 - 5th Fret.

This section of measurements might be a bit silly, inaccurate, redundant, and unnecessary. Just know that you'll need to file down frets, and round over the edges of the fretboard a bit.

Total Fretboard and Neck Thickness (Not Width: )

1.340 - 0 Fret.
0.881 - 1st Fret (Chafed section.)
0.838 - 2nd Fret (Chafed section.)
0.848 - 3rd Fret (Chafed section.)
0.851 - 4th Fret.
0.849 - 5th Fret.
0.856 - 6th Fret.
0.850 - 7th Fret.
0.844 - 8th Fret.
0.848 - 9th Fret.
0.846 - 10th Fret.
0.843 - 11th Fret.
0.854 - 12th Fret.
0.877 - 13th Fret.
1.014 - 14th Fret.
1.125 - 15th Fret.
1.122 - 16th Fret. (Note: at this point, the sides of the neck heel seem to be not perfectly flat, but the center of the neck heel is the measurement. Or maybe I just held the micrometer a bit off kilter.)
1.1425 - 17th Fret.
1.1695 - 18th Fret.
1.1885 - 19th Fret.
1.2105 - 20th Fret.
1.234 - 21st Fret.
1.243 - 22nd Fret.

Fretboard End (measured in the middle of the fretboard, at the pinnacle of the fretboard radius: )
1.250.

Also, note: the 10" radius appears to be "tapered" towards being deeper on the Low E side of the fretboard than it is on the High E side. At the very end of the fretboard, on the sides, I checked for the thickness.

Low E Side: 1.191
High E Side: 1.225

Subtle, but I guess it helps with pressing the high strings down. However, I could not measure to my own satisfaction if this statement is accurate to the entire fretboard. Perhaps the High E side was indeed "tapered" so that the player's finger would hold a Barre Chord down easier, or perhaps not.

- Austin
1966 Ventures II (German Carved, B670,)
1970s "Not a Blues Bender" Body 1,
1970s "Not a Blues Bender" Body 2,
1976 Brass Rail Deluxe #10,
2013 Fender Pawn Shop Bass VI.


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