Zero Fret. How do you install them?

[cmiller0034]

Found it! Was reading Tim's blog the other day and had come across this, he reckons the zero is exactly the same as any other. http://tymguitars.com.au/blogs/blog/14052449-neck-work-on-a-burns-baldwin-bison

Very interesting reading! I love seeing repairs like this. Thanks for sharing.

[panther]

You absolutely can use the same size fret wire for the zero fret. Otherwise you would not be able to have the same size frets over the whole fingerboard. The zero fret is a simply another fret, and if you want super low action the same size fret is the way to go.

You can use a slightly taller fret as well. I do in some cases because it gives you a little more flexibility with different types of set ups.

However if you needed a larger fret at the zero position, then you would also need larger fret wire in every other position of the fingerboard graduating to very small down by the heel. Correct?

For another example, when you make a barre chord on your guitar, you are simply moving the zero fret all around the fingerboard using your finger as a capo with the same size fret wire in every position. So it makes sense that a zero fret with the same size wire will work perfectly when set up correctly.

Hope this helps and I explained it so you can understand,

Best, Bob Shade

Bob;
I respect your opinion.
Like I mentioned, I'm slightly out of my comfort zone. I want to ask though. The normal nut slot depth is always higher than is the first fret, correct ? If the nut is cut at the same depth as the first fret, you would basically lose the use of the first fret, as I see it ?
If you have a very pronounced neck relief, I would completely agree, the Zero fret can be the same as the rest, but if you want a slightly straighter neck relief, as olrocknroller, mentions, a zero fret of the same height as the others In My opinion would seem to create a problem. All examples I've measured are between .005", and .007" higher. I have not found one the same height yet.
Can you go into more explanation as to where I'm missing the point ! I completely concur with your example of the moving barre chord, but you are not addressing open strings, that is where I feel the problem will manifest itself. Because the ONLY place a zero fret makes any difference is OPEN strings.
Please, not doubting you at all, I just don't get it ?

Dan

[oigun]

Its possible to use the same height and it will work. But I like to leave the zero fret a bit higher because it wears quicker by the strings pushing and rubbing against it when tuning the guitar and use of the tremolo.

[Bob Shade]

I explained it as best I can, perhaps someone else can jump in here. Vintage Mosrite and Hallmarks both used the same size fret wire for the zero fret so we know it works, so, go back to my post and read it again, hopefully it will click.

Let me try again here, sorry I confused you.......... if you needed a higher zero fret, then you would need each fret there forward to be smaller than the last. Does this make sense? The neck does not relief in it to function properly with the same size zero fret. It is just another fret.

Both ways are correct, you can use a slightly higher fret too, which I employ on the new Hallmarks, it simply depends on the action you are looking for and versatility for the set up.

Hope this helps, Bob

[panther]

Bob;
Yes. Now understand, Like I said Not doubting you, just did not understand, and did not match what I've experienced.
Dan

[chad3006]

The question about the nut/zero fret size. Ideally in a perfect world, a well shaped nut slot should be sized just as tall as the frets (just like a zero fret). That's not always easy to do and some hard-picking large string players need the nut to be a bit taller in order to TWANG the open strings without too much buzz. But finger-pickers like the nut to act like a zero fret – low and not much higher than the rest of the frets if at all – probably explains why Mosrites are/were popular with finger-pickers. Usually, the remaining frets are dressed and leveled and the zero fret is not (or at least to the extent that the others are), leaving it somewhat taller that the rest in real world applications.

But yes, just as Bob said, you can use a zero fret that is the same size or larger than the rest of the fingerboard. On purely theoretical terms, if the zero fret (or nut) is taller than the rest, intonation will suffer very slightly, but it is not noticeable to normal humans and can be compensated for with intonation and tuning adjustments elsewhere.

[panther]

This is proving quite interesting. Just one more question.
If all frets are the same height, then am I to assume, that if I run a straight edge down a perfect flat neck, with properly dressed frets, that the bottom of each nut slot should be the same as the frets ?
Because that is what I'm gleaning from the conversation. Then the action height would bring the springs progressively farther away from the frets, as to go up the neck ? Once again, if NOT, Why ?
I have always THOUGHT that the bottom of the nut slots were suppose to be slightly higher than are the frets ? Just want clarification.

Dan

[BlackieOnasis]

Weighing in here: It's not a Mosrite, but I just finished this TeisRickGretschRiteCaster hybrid few weeks ago, featuring my first zero fret. Here's my buddy putting it through the paces:


Body detail:


Zero fret detail:


I had the same concerns as most zero fret newbz, but using the same fretwire for all the frets worked great. No buzz and decently low action. I think the trick is in the final setup, tweaking the bridge height and the neck relief to just the right spot. With a slightly taller zero fret, I could get away with less bow and/or a slightly lower bridge, but it certainly works fine as-is.

It's not the prettiest installation in the world, but it works well enough that I've been approached to do a full-blown from scratch custom for a full-time working guitarist.

(Okay, yes, he's also my cousin, but he is a full-time guitarist who can't afford to waste money just to stoke a cousin's ego. Although he certainly has. )

http://www.reverbnation.com/TheBathSaltZombies

[cmiller0034]

nice blackie! I really like the pick guard.