Gospel headstock decal

[1966MosriteForever]

Hey fellow Mosrite fans, is anyone capable or know anyone capable of making a Gospel headstock decal?Im building a few Celebrity partsrites for myself, and I would kinda like to make one of them a Gospel.Anywho, any help would be appreciated!

[Bob Shade]

Hello, with all due respect the Gospel mark is an official trademark owned by Hallmark Guitars. Placing our trademark on any guitar without our permission directly from us would be unlawful. If you would like to inquire about hiring our shop to help you please do so, otherwise I respectfully would ask you not to use our trademark.

Regards,

Bob Shade/ Hallmark Guitars
240-473-1157

[1966MosriteForever]

Wow! I had no idea that it even still existed.sry. Like i said its for an unfinished mosrite for my personal collection. Not trying to do anything illegal.

[panther]

Bob if he were restoring an original Mosrite, would it also be the same situation ? Just curious, I'm sure many would like to know. If I'm restoring an original vintage Philco radio for example, I'm not aware that any law is broken, if I apply a reproduction Philco decal to the finished radio. If I built my own from scratch, I can see the problem, Could you please clarify.
Dan

[olrocknroller]

Hasn't this turned into an interesting topic!

We could write a book (probably several ) about the companies that have fallen by the wayside because their ideas and designs were copied, and reproduced in sweat-shops at a fraction of the price, and a fraction of the quality of the original. To try to stem this outright piracy, legal systems have settled upon various forms of copyright, and trademark registry to provide legal grounds for the protection of designs, and manufacturing processes.

Trademarks are trademarks...folks go through a lot of legal hoops to register what they have created. Unfortunately, sometimes the uninitiated get trapped in the zeal companies are forced to exercise to protect their products... We're talking yet another double-edged sword here.

Sadly, the world is full of unscrupulous people who will take every possible advantage of unique designs...(like Mosrite) to profit from others' successes. Companies have to be diligent, to the point of being paranoid about these people, and over the years, have invested huge sums to establish arcane legal judgments to try to ensure the protection of their designs.

All that said, those of us who "blunder" into this game of protection often get slapped with seemingly over-zealous reactions that shock us at least , and can cost us big $$$ if we decide to fight it . Honest people like Bob produce a quality product, of which they are justly proud, and that pride carries over to people who own, and want to own a "Hallmark."

Hence, people want to emulate that pride of ownership by creating their own version...fine; but put your name on it, make it a little different, and then you can call it "new and improved" if you decide to go commercial with it. That's the way of enterprise.

Upshot of all this...Bob owns the trademark...now you know!

[MWaldorf]

Trademarks are trademarks, as olrocknroller said. Restorations and partsrites are an interesting category, unlike outright reproductions. There are genuine Mosrite logo screens still floating around - could these be used legally on a restoration, or a partsrite of genuine Mosrite factory parts? What about a genuine Mosrite body with a replacement neck?

[raygun85]

Unfortunately, I know more about copyright law than I care to.

Technically, it is NEVER right to put someone else's legal, registered, trademark on your personal creation. Sadly, this would include Partsrites and restoration projects unless used with the express permission of the current trademark owner. Sometimes it's okay to use a text-only trademark so long as it is in an unassociated region of industry, or a geographical region of business that won't threaten the trademark owner's primary customer base. For manufacturers and retailers who engage in commerce nationally or internationally this creates a whole other set of issues - US Copyright Law is not necessarily recognized or enforced in foreign countries. Therefore, a US-based entity will have to register their patent, trademark, or other intellectual property in any or every other sovereign nation in which they intend to engage in commerce. (This is why there are so many Mosrite "fakes" coming out of Japan and Asia.)

Any time and under any circumstances (and I cannot stress this enough), if you knowingly OR unknowingly infringe on another copyright holder, trademark owner, or any other intellectual property, you can be liable for charges from civil law clear up to federal law (and then some) - resulting in anything from having the infringing material (this could include an entire guitar) confiscated to facing fines, penalties, and even imprisonment.

Anyone who manufactures, replicates, duplicates, purchases or resells a "Mosrite of California" waterslide decal is liable for facing criminal charges. Anyone who manufactures or purchases "reproduction" pickups with the "Mosrite of California" logo impressed on the top is likewise liable for facing criminal charges.

However, since Uncle Sam has better things to do (like fine a fisherman $50,000 for catching a big fish in the ocean, or raiding Gibson USA's lumber yard), so they're not usually too quick to snoop folks out and go after them. Especially when, in the words of an FBI agent I spoke with in Sacramento over going after someone who had illegally signed and cashed some checks in our company's name, 'it really hinges on the dollar amount lost.' So when you have big-time crooks like the big-wigs who used to run Enron easily within the Feds' grasp, they're not likely to come after a retired grandpa who bought a decal for $5 and put it on his home-made guitar. So this usually leaves it in the hands of the trademark owner to go after these folks and press civil charges. If they plead loud enough, they may be able to get criminal charges filed against the offender. But usually the trademark owner will have to retain an attorney (it's best if it's one who specializes in copyright law) and have them send a 'Cease and Desist' letter. If the offender keeps up the illegal activity then they'll probably face a lawsuit. Most of these cases don't incur a loss large enough to justify the trademark owner investing the time or money to pursue the case.

The real question then is - how willing are you to risk it? I would hate to be that one guy who get's caught and they make an example out of.

Because of all of these things - M-3 California feels it's best not to get involved in anything that could result in copyright infringements. You will never be able to order a "Mosrite" or "Gospel" branded guitar from us. We've had many people purchase supposedly-NOS "Mosrite of California" pickup covers and request that we use them in fulfilling their pickup order. Sorry, no can do. The only time we will wind pickups for a "Mosrite" branded pickup cover if it is a truly original part, a restoration or rewind job. We usually require the customer to send the entire pickup - not just the covers, when restoring it.

In the case of the Gospel trademark, Bob Shade is the legal trademark owner. Even if Bob were to be a sport and allow you to do it yourself, it would most certainly be best to contact him directly and obtain his okey-dokey first. If nothing else, at least as a humble show of respect for his fine product and for his wishes. Bob, maybe you can help out folks who want to restore their Gospel models by providing waterslide decals?

In light of this info, it would probably likewise be best to contact Fillmore or Dana Moseley before purchasing Mosrite decals and using them on your restorations. And especially The Ventures. They are sick and tired of people making "The Ventures Model" decals and putting them on their guitars. There are way too many Ventures model Mosrites running around out there that were never sanctioned by The Ventures after the endorsement ended around 1968.

[raygun85]

I did neglect to mention that if someone constructs or restores a guitar using a registered trademark, it's not just the $5 decal that can stir up trouble. If it's for personal use then you're not likely to have trouble. But if you later sell the instrument or otherwise liquidate and receive monetary compensation for it then you can get into big trouble. This is because, now you have gone from a small dollar amount (i.e. $5) to a larger dollar amount lost (e.g. $1,500; $2,000; $10,000...however much you receive for the instrument.)

This also has far-reaching effects - the person who bought the instrument from you, whether aware or unaware of the trademark infringement can be held liable, have the instrument confiscated, and/or face civil or criminal prosecution. If someone leaves such an instrument to their children in a will, the heirs are now liable for the trademark infringement. When it comes to intellectual property disputes, you might say that 'the buck never stops.'

The Mosrite world is rife with intellectual property disputes and all it would take is one zealous lawyer and a client with big bucks to clean it up. Lord know's how deep (and how far back in time) it could go.

[1966MosriteForever]

Just to let you guys know, Im sending Bob the neck and hes silkscreening and refinishing it. Problem solved. As disgussed in all the previous post, this is a slippery slope. These situations can be tricky bc companies change hands so many times. Ive also run into this with the Indian motorcycle brand. I guess it all comes down to how the current owner feels about it. Now a separate issue all together is that Id be potentially polluting the Mosrite market with another confusing partsrite. But rest assured that Ill never sell my Mosrites unless Im in danger of losing everything. In the event that I ever did have to sell it, i would fully disclose how it came to be. I have put to much time, money, and love into my collection of guitars and the Mosrited will be passed to my children. And if they ever sell them I will haunt them!!!!

[raygun85]

Oh, I'm not judging what others do. It's none of my business. Since this topic came up and is or has been on the minds of folks here on the forum at one time or another I figured I'd share what I know about it to help clear up any misunderstandings about trademark and copyright law.

Hopefully, this will help others to understand and avoid future infringements.