Mosrite Sounding Pickups For A Strat Clone?

[SurfCat]

Hi, All,

Recently I put together a blueburst Strat clone from parts purchased from eBay. The pickups are probably cheapos from Asia.

Several weeks ago I saw the Iron Butterfly play "In A Gadda Da Vida" on PBS. I was blown away when I saw they were using Mosrites! I really liked their sound!

Does anyone know what pickups I could replace my cheapos with to get an Iron Butterfly Mosrite sound or at least something very similar on my Strat clone?

Will stacked or rail humbucker pickups work or do I need single coil pickups?

Is it possible to use 3 humbuckers together or am I limited to two?

Thanks,

SurfCat

[dubtrub]

An interesting idea, however most of us that have Strats prefer it to sound like a Strat and get a Mosrite or Hallmark to obtain that Mosrite sound. However, if you are handy with a router and can locate a blank Strat pickguard, it might be doable to install a set of Hallmark, Duncan or Elliot Mosrite type pickups. You would not need the pickup ring, just cut your blank pickguard to the dimension of the pickup using the pickguard as the 'ring' with the adjustment screws on each end of the pickup coming up through the pickguard (as on a Strat). Any of the other pickups you mentioned will not sound like a Mosrite.

[Nokie]

If one were to slap a set of Mosrite pickups into a Strat towards the goal of acheiving the Mosrite sound, the result would be disappointing. Why? There are two big factors that make the Mosrite sound. The overwound single-coil pickups are only one of the factors. The other very important factor is the 24.75" scale. A Strat has a 25.5" scale which makes for a brighter tone. The more winds of the Mosrite pickup coils will take some of that brightness back but with that longer scale, the Strat will always be significantly brighter sounding than an actual Mosrite.

The Wilson Brothers Ventures Model guitar, which Iron Butterfly currently plays, has the longer 25.5" scale with overwound single coils designed by Seymour Duncan (a major Ventures fan himself). I have a couple of the Wilson Bros as well as Mosrites and in comparison, the Wilson Bros has the brighter tone.

-Marty

[zak]

If one were to slap a set of Mosrite pickups into a Strat towards the goal of acheiving the Mosrite sound, the result would be disappointing. Why? There are two big factors that make the Mosrite sound. The overwound single-coil pickups are only one of the factors. The other very important factor is the 24.75" scale. A Strat has a 25.5" scale which makes for a brighter tone. The more winds of the Mosrite pickup coils will take some of that brightness back but with that longer scale, the Strat will always be significantly brighter sounding than an actual Mosrite.

More to it than that - a big part of both the Strat's sound and the Mosrite's sound are their distinctly different tail hardware and bridges, as well as how the neck is connected to the body on the two guitars. The significantly deeper Mosrite neck pocket has a big effect on its sound.
A Strat with overwound single-coils will still sound like a Strat...only with overwound single-coils.
Then again, a big part of the Iron Butterfly sound (at least on the early stuff) was the use of a Mosrite Fuzzrite, and pretty much any single-coil guitar with decent output going through a Fuzzrite is going to yield very similar results.

[Nokie]

More to it than that - a big part of both the Strat's sound and the Mosrite's sound are their distinctly different tail hardware and bridges, as well as how the neck is connected to the body on the two guitars. The significantly deeper Mosrite neck pocket has a big effect on its sound.
A Strat with overwound single-coils will still sound like a Strat...only with overwound single-coils.
Then again, a big part of the Iron Butterfly sound (at least on the early stuff) was the use of a Mosrite Fuzzrite, and pretty much any single-coil guitar with decent output going through a Fuzzrite is going to yield very similar results.

I think thats overstating it, Zak. Yes the different bridges effect the sustain of the different guitars but when you start talking about neck pockets, I can't agree that a deeper neck pocket is going to have a big affect on tone (providing scale lengths are held constant). Now if you're saying that a deeper neck pocket brings the neck back thus resulting in a shorter scale, then we are saying the same thing. For me, all these sound claims must be given the acid test and I don't believe many folks making such sound claims have done proper A/B comparisons. Determining different tones as a result of neck pockets would be difficult to test. It would require blindfold A/B'ing a Mosrite with a deep neck pocket to another Mosrite with a shallow neck pocket (both with 24.75" scale so the difference is strictly depth of neck pocket). As long as scale length, pickups and all else is held constant, I really don't believe we're gonna hear a difference between two such 24.75" scale Mosrites. Yes, I know we are talking about a comparison between Mosrite and Strat but if the focus is on depth of neck pocket, the comparison has to be made between two guitars of the same make whose only difference is in the neck pocket.

[zak]

Determining different tones as a result of neck pockets would be difficult to test.

Actually I have had ample opportunity to test this, and it makes a noticeable difference in sustain and attack characteristics, providing that all other construction variables are equal. Depth of neck pocket has a direct effect on the rigidity of the neck overall.

[Nokie]

Determining different tones as a result of neck pockets would be difficult to test.

Actually I have had ample opportunity to test this, and it makes a noticeable difference in sustain and attack characteristics, providing that all other construction variables are equal. Depth of neck pocket has a direct effect on the rigidity of the neck overall.

I see. Your brief response appears very reactionary and includes no details other than the mention of rigidity so I'm left with many questions. How did you test the difference in neck pockets? What guitars did you compare? What is an attack characteristic?

-Marty

[zak]

I see. Your brief response appears very reactionary and includes no details other than the mention of rigidity so I'm left with many questions. How did you test the difference in neck pockets? What guitars did you compare? What is an attack characteristic?

Huh? Reactionary? Well...you can read whatever you want into it.


I worked for a major guitar manufacturer. When I worked there I had plenty of opportunities to hear what moving a neck pocket deeper into a body does to the overall sound of a guitar. The deeper the neck is set into the body, the smaller the area which is free to vibrate. More or less freedom to vibrate has a direct effect on how percussive the attack is, you can hear it acoustically without even plugging a guitar in. But whatever...you can look up all this information yourself on some luthier's forum, no doubt. It doesn't really matter what I say, does it, someone will come along and say it's all bullshit and turn the whole thing into an online ego match.

[Nokie]

I worked for a major guitar manufacturer. When I worked there I had plenty of opportunities to hear what moving a neck pocket deeper into a body does to the overall sound of a guitar. The deeper the neck is set into the body, the smaller the area which is free to vibrate. More or less freedom to vibrate has a direct effect on how percussive the attack is, you can hear it acoustically without even plugging a guitar in. But whatever...you can look up all this information yourself on some luthier's forum, no doubt. It doesn't really matter what I say, does it, someone will come along and say it's all bullshit and turn the whole thing into an online ego match.

Alright, Zak, it sounds dubious to me but hey, I am indeed the kind of sceptic you describe who starts from the idea that its all B.S. or "the emperors new clothes" and when I say that, egos flair up. With regards to your suggestion of luthier's forums, I see a lot of claims from luthiers that I don't accept out of hand. I question authority as a rule and especially when they are selling something (such as guitars). In addition, there is a lot of "group think" out there such as "maple necks sound brighter than rosewood necks" that in my experience has no basis in fact.

[Dennisthe Menace]

Nokie wrote:

In addition, there is a lot of "group think" out there such as "maple necks sound brighter than rosewood necks" that in my experience has no basis in fact.

Nokie, were you referring to the necks themselves, or were you referring to the Fretboards?