Mosrite Sounding Pickups For A Strat Clone?

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zak
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Re: Mosrite Sounding Pickups For A Strat Clone?

Postby zak » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:38 pm

Well Marty, the difference is that I'm not trying to sell anything to anyone. heck, I don't even work for a guitar manufacturer anymore, and when I did, I didn't sing the praises of their products (or even own one of them).

The reason some modifications are "popular" is because they actually produce results - note that I say "some" and make no attempt to quantify these results as being worth the expense/effort or otherwise. Is there a lot of bullshit advertizing and, as you put it, "snake oil" out there? Beyond a shadow of a doubt, yes. Absolutely. And skepticism is a good thing, I always encourage people to think for themselves and draw their own conclusions.

I also always tell people to consider the source of the information they're getting, because there are plenty of people out there who know what they're talking about (and not trying to sell anything!) but the internet has made this difficult, you can't tell what someone's credentials and experience are on a message board. I see lots of people tossing around information they obtained 3d hand, and offering really terrible advice to anyone who'll listen. And last but not least, there is certainly no shortage of people handing out information with the intent to profit from it.

However, since you say you are scientifically minded, guitars are subject to the laws of physics no less than other inanimate objects. Pretty much anything you do to them will affect how they sound, though some of these changes may be barely perceptible to our ears. Some of the "popular" modifications you allude to may actually bring less tangible results than changing string gauge or adjusting pickup height, but 9 times out of 10 they're done to make the owner of the instrument feel better rather than make the instrument sound better. Is the guy that just stuck $600 worth of Callaham after-market parts on his Telecaster going to admit that it sounded pretty much exactly as it did before and admit that he could have spent the money more wisely elsewhere?

The entire guitar market is based on the "he who dies with the nicest toys wins" instinct which humans have not evolved beyond yet. Is an AAA grade maple top going to make a guitar sound better than a plain one? Will a "limited edition" finish or gold-plated hardware make a guitar sound better? Is something better because of its rarity? No, but it will make its owner feel like he is part of some elite exclusive group, and buying an expensive guitar is a lot easier than learning to play it really well. There's a darn good reason people spend six figures on '59 Les Pauls, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with how they play or feel, I can assure you of that.

Last but not least, even A/B tests are subjective, since that's exactly what our perception of tone (or music, for that matter) is.

Hopefully this is something we can actually agree on.

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Re: Mosrite Sounding Pickups For A Strat Clone?

Postby Nokie » Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:48 am

zak wrote:Well Marty, the difference is that I'm not trying to sell anything to anyone. heck, I don't even work for a guitar manufacturer anymore, and when I did, I didn't sing the praises of their products (or even own one of them).

The reason some modifications are "popular" is because they actually produce results - note that I say "some" and make no attempt to quantify these results as being worth the expense/effort or otherwise. Is there a lot of bullshit advertizing and, as you put it, "snake oil" out there? Beyond a shadow of a doubt, yes. Absolutely. And skepticism is a good thing, I always encourage people to think for themselves and draw their own conclusions.

I also always tell people to consider the source of the information they're getting, because there are plenty of people out there who know what they're talking about (and not trying to sell anything!) but the internet has made this difficult, you can't tell what someone's credentials and experience are on a message board. I see lots of people tossing around information they obtained 3d hand, and offering really terrible advice to anyone who'll listen. And last but not least, there is certainly no shortage of people handing out information with the intent to profit from it.

However, since you say you are scientifically minded, guitars are subject to the laws of physics no less than other inanimate objects. Pretty much anything you do to them will affect how they sound, though some of these changes may be barely perceptible to our ears. Some of the "popular" modifications you allude to may actually bring less tangible results than changing string gauge or adjusting pickup height, but 9 times out of 10 they're done to make the owner of the instrument feel better rather than make the instrument sound better. Is the guy that just stuck $600 worth of Callaham after-market parts on his Telecaster going to admit that it sounded pretty much exactly as it did before and admit that he could have spent the money more wisely elsewhere?

The entire guitar market is based on the "he who dies with the nicest toys wins" instinct which humans have not evolved beyond yet. Is an AAA grade maple top going to make a guitar sound better than a plain one? Will a "limited edition" finish or gold-plated hardware make a guitar sound better? Is something better because of its rarity? No, but it will make its owner feel like he is part of some elite exclusive group, and buying an expensive guitar is a lot easier than learning to play it really well. There's a darn good reason people spend six figures on '59 Les Pauls, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with how they play or feel, I can assure you of that.

Last but not least, even A/B tests are subjective, since that's exactly what our perception of tone (or music, for that matter) is.

Hopefully this is something we can actually agree on.


I would accept an A/B test as objective if it was done statistically on a control group of listeners with at least a .05 level of significance. The larger the group the better. 25 or more would be best. Failing that, it is indeed subjective but my main complaint throughout this discussion is not on objectivity but that few want to challenge their perceptions with a good acid test. Its much easier to accept what so and so said on the internet chat group and go out and spend the dough.

Happily Zak, on most of this stuff we agree. I especially like your observation that 9 out of 10 mods are done to make the owner feel better. I reiterate my previous statement that the most effective mod is improving ones playing ability and these external equipment changes are diversions that keep us from doing that. By the way, I'm a complete hypocrit and have done many mods to my gear as well over the years. The only difference between me and most other guitar player / collectors is that I just don't recommend making any "external" mods (other than action adjustments and changing to desired string gages).

-Marty

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Re: Mosrite Sounding Pickups For A Strat Clone?

Postby SurfCat » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:32 am

dubtrub wrote:At this stage of the discussion, the original question and the multiple diverse answers have either answered Surfcat's question or has frightened him off. He has not returned to the forum since popping in and asking his one and only question. :o


I'm still here. I smoked my motherboard and just got back online.

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Re: Mosrite Sounding Pickups For A Strat Clone?

Postby MWaldorf » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:06 am

Welcome back, surfcat. So, did you have a particular guitar project in mind here or is this more general conjecture on a Mo-strat?
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Re: Mosrite Sounding Pickups For A Strat Clone?

Postby SurfCat » Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:45 pm

MWaldorf wrote:Welcome back, surfcat. So, did you have a particular guitar project in mind here or is this more general conjecture on a Mo-strat?


Thank you, MWaldorf,

When I bought all my parts, it was always with the idea of replacing the Start-type pickups with something that had more power in the low and midrange frequencies. I was particularly interested in posibly adding some kind of rail humbuckers to give it more of a Jazzmaster or SG sound or something heavy (like the original Iron Butterfly "Ina Gadda Da Vida" sound).

Strats have always sounded too thin and high to my ears but I really like the general understated elegance of the Strat design.

Surfcat

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Re: Mosrite Sounding Pickups For A Strat Clone?

Postby KRamone27 » Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:06 pm

What about the dimarzio fs-1 or the seymour duncan quarter pounder both are pretty high output single coils.


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