A question about tuners

[jfine]

My old '74 350 had Grovers.

[JimPage]

Hey--

After playing this 1972 Mosrite Celebrity III with the chrome diamond tuners for a couple of weeks or so, I have to say that I like 'em.

I was a bit put off by their looks at first. My first preference for tuners is the old nickel Grover Rotomatics, followed by the individual nickel metal-buttoned Klusons.

I was also disappointed that there is no way to oil (other than removing them from the instrument) or adjust these things.

Having said that, they are pleasant to use, seem precise enough and sturdy enough, and don't slip.

I may have been lucky with the six on this guitar, but they are far better than I expected them to be. I wish they were nickel plated, but they are what Semie put on this guitar and I won't second-guess him!!!

--Jim

[oipunkguy]

my 350 has the good ol' kluson type, like 60's mosrites.

[smitbust]

My 74 350 came with grovers

[JimPage]

Hey--

Not to tip over a sacred cow or go against conventional wisdom here, but I am wondering if this perception is really correct:
Those tuners are cheapo Japanese tuners that were used on and off from about the mid '60s to the early '70s. They are original. They most often appear on Mosrite acoustics that were given away to churches for free and Mosrite electrics that were custom made for personal friends/acquaintances of Semie. Either way I guess he figured neither would complain if he skimped on the tuners.

I looked extensively on the Net for info on these tuners and I don't see much info on them. Someone said somewhere on a blog that they were believed to be made by Ping, but I haven't seen that verified. I also haven't seen them on other guitars.

My question is: Were these indeed cheapo tuners? I agree they are probably Japanese, but I have them on my Celebrity and like them at least as much as same-period open-backed Klusons. I don't like them as much as Rotomatic Grovers, but that's just me.

Perhaps Semie used them as an upgrade above the standard Klusons for instruments he gave to friends and churches.

And, what really makes me wonder about this, if I am looking correctly at the photos of Semie's personal guitar on Sarah's new Website, it has these diamond tuners on it. If I were a guitar builder, I would not install cheapo tuners on my own guitar.

--Jim

[Sarah93003]

I wouldn't call them "cheapos". They may have been economy tuners compared to Kluson's or Grovers, considering we are talking about the 1960's when "Made In Japan" was not the best reputation. So, even though they may have been less expensive does not make them a bad tuner. His personal Gospel does look like these might be on there, but it's hard to be certain. The fact that you like yours is a testament that they are pretty good tuners!

[JimPage]

Sarah93003 wrote:
>>They may have been economy tuners compared to Kluson's or Grovers . . .

Back in the 1960s, many of my friends considered Klusons to be cheapo tuners. I had no opinion, as I was not a technical type, but I considered whatever was on a upper-end Gibson to be the best, so I preferred Grovers.

The idea of swapping out tuners, or any other guitar part or component, would never have entered my mind back then. If I recall correctly, it wasn't until the mid-1970s that I remember folks customizing their guitars and shuffling parts and components around.

A perception that I am certain I am recalling correctly is that some folks felt that Fender instruments were cheapos compared to Gibsons because of the way they were made. Bolt-on necks, solid bodies, and so on. The prices of Fenders certainly weren't cheap, but-- then, at least, where I lived-- Fender instruments were not usually seen in music stores and were not sold mail order that I was aware of. It wasn't until very late in the 1960s that I began seeing Fender instruments in the stores where I then lived.

I recall being astonished at their prices in the stores, as I expected them to cost less.

Why that was, I do not know. Maybe it coincided with my friends and I being old enough to drive to Miami and Tampa from either the Florida Keys or Naples, Florida, where I grew up. Smaller towns did not seem to offer Fender guitars, though, or Mosrites, either.

--Jim

[Rich121]

Hey--

Not to tip over a sacred cow or go against conventional wisdom here, but I am wondering if this perception is really correct:
Those tuners are cheapo Japanese tuners that were used on and off from about the mid '60s to the early '70s. They are original. They most often appear on Mosrite acoustics that were given away to churches for free and Mosrite electrics that were custom made for personal friends/acquaintances of Semie. Either way I guess he figured neither would complain if he skimped on the tuners.
--Jim

I think the cheapo diamonds on my Celeb are great. They are still tight and smooth and the plating is still excellent. I hadn't even noticed them until it was pointed out I seem to have the exact same tuners on a 70 epi Crestwood (Japan) and they also work well.

That's better than I can say about some of my other 60's tuners. I just replaced the Grovers on the Martin a couple months ago and the Klusons on the 62 335 are headed for a plastic bag anytime.

[JimPage]

Rich121 wrote:
>>I just replaced the Grovers on the Martin a couple months ago . . .

Last year, I replaced the stock gold-plated or gold-toned tuners on my Martin D-41 with gold-plated Grover Rotomatics, so I did just the opposite, I guess!

The nicest tuners I ever had on a guitar came on my Martin 000-28VS, which was a slotted headstock guitar and I believe those were Wilkinson nickel-plated open-backed tuners with the butterbean-shaped keys.

Gosh, they were the bomb.

--Jim

[Sarah93003]

It's all very interesting. I get the feeling that generally on the Gretsch forum, a bolt on neck is considered inferior to a set neck. Personally, I don't have an opinion other than I love taking a guitar apart, putting it back together, and having it work correctly. I can't do that with a set neck.