Buying guitars sight unseen

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Vito
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Buying guitars sight unseen

Postby Vito » Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:53 pm

There's a relatively new phenomenon going around...well, it's new to me, anyway: Buying guitars via the Internet, sight unseen.

I can remember a time when it was unthinkable, and not just because there wasn't any Internet. We just didn't buy guitars we couldn't play first. So what has changed?

I think that part of it is economics. The best deals are on the Internet. Then too there's the fact that many guitars are available only in a few stores, and if none of them are nearby, there's no way to lay hands on them before you buy. In fact, some guitars aren't available in stores at all. That seems true of many of the better Mosrite clones...at least here in the U.S.A.

Another factor: Guitar technology has come a long way in the last few decades, and there are lots of boutique or small-shop luthiers making some great instruments, and they only sell their wares direct.

Perhaps another part of it is that, despite the mystique and allure of "vintage" instruments, in many cases the quality of manufacturing is probably higher in general today than it was in days of yore. Even some of the el cheapo guitars that come from Asia are surprisingly good.

Case in point: The first guitar I ever bought sight unseen was a "Fullerton" spider bridge resonator. I call it my "Beijing Special" onna counta it was made in China. Six years ago it cost me under $200 brand new from an online vendor, including a hard shell case and shipping. The workmanship (well, with one exception) is incredible, and the thing sounds amazing. The exception is that the guitar would NOT play in tune fretted above the 5th fret, but I bought it for slide, so that didn't matter. (Actually, it did matter eventually, so I had to invent a tunable bridge for it...but that's another story.)

I've only bought two other whole guitars (plus one I assembled from parts) without playing them:

  • Halo Clarus Baritone – A very nice guitar, but the humbucking pickups were way too hot for super-clean twang, so I sent it back. The guys at Halo Guitars are great, and their instruments are super...if you want thick, fat, hot, high-output tone. But if you want crisp and sparkling twang, those hot humbuckers aren't for you.
  • Gold Tone Paul Beard Signature Resonator Cutaway – Actually, I wasn't taking much of a risk here. I played one of them many years ago in Paul Beard's booth at the NAMM show in Anaheim. When I finally bought one of my own last year, I wasn't disappointed. It was a great player right out of the box...brilliant, loud, chiming sound, and close to perfect intonation.

After my experience with the Halo baritone, I learned my lesson. Evidently, the recent renaissance in baritone guitars is aimed at shredmeisters, as evidenced by the hot humbuckers they all carry. Even Fender's Blacktop Telecaster has a humbucker in the bridge position. So, the obvious solution was to build my own from parts (...but that's another story too).

Anyhow, I was just thinking about this today...how it seems that the idea of buying a guitar sight unseen—which was unthinkable years ago—seems to be relatively commonplace today. In fact, I'll probably end up doing it again. When I can afford it, that's probably how I'll get whatever Mosrite clone I end up buying. :mrgreen:
"The snake seems to be indifferent to the song." – Donald Fagen
"Yes, but it's a crisp indifference, if you know what I mean." – Walter Becker

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Re: Buying guitars sight unseen

Postby Nokie » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:19 pm

Excellent topic, Vito. Indeed, buying guitars sight unseen was not something I would have done back in the '70's but in recent times I've purchased several guitars that way over the internet. Of at least 10 guitars purchased this way, only one was a problem and it was a Mosrite. There was a guy in Canada selling Mosrites that were said to be acquired from Semie in compensation for outstanding payments due. I believe it because these were obviously "seconds" in Semie's inventory. I received and returned two of these Mosrites that were absolutely unacceptable. The person selling these guitars could not have been a guitar player as there is no way I could see sending these guitars out in their unplayable conditions. One had strings completely unaligned with the pick-up poll pieces and the other had serious neck issues. Fortunately the 3rd one was the charm. Fortunately, I haven't run into other such sloppy dealers. If buying on Ebay, I do make sure the seller has a good rating.

As you noted, production of guitars is such these days that it is very rare that one comes off the assembly line or from boutique maker with any kind of serious issues. Set up to individual taste is going to be expected no matter where the guitar is purchased. I most often avoid buying any new guitar. There is really no reason to do so. It seems that 90% of guitars are sold to folks who don't end up playing them very often. That is to say that most new guitars sold end up in a closet and eventually get sold on Ebay. I've bought so many new condition scratch-free guitars for so much less than the store or musiciansfriend prices.

-Marty

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Re: Buying guitars sight unseen

Postby paulramon1962 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:58 am

Interesting idea.

I come from the newer generation of guitar players, being that I'm 20 and haven't been buying gear very long. Add in the fact that I live in southern Utah, a place desolate of music stores, there aren't very many guitars I can try before I buy, so to speak. I think that the remoteness of many people is one of the reasons guitars over the internet are becoming more and more popular.. Like Vito said, many Mosrite clones in the US aren't available in stores; when it comes right down to it, the selection of guitars in music stores is quite sad: gibsons, fenders, ibanez, maybe a few imported BC rich, but otherwise, nothing (Some stores have Rickenbacker. I like those stores.).

I've ordered 3 guitars sight unseen: a Fender Mexi strat (loved it), one of Ed Roman's guitars (a cheap one, but I loved it anyway), and an Ibanez(had to cancel the order, but i'm sure I would've loved it). From the two that I did receive, I can say that the quality was very good, even if the design was a little "off" (ahem, the roman guitar). My local music shops only get in cheap fenders/squiers and Washburn acoustics, and they come in out of the box playing pretty good; usually they don't have to do much of a setup on them.

As far as the "mass market" goes, these are improvements of a great nature: people far and wide can now get affordable quality guitars at no inconvenience, aside from cost. The downside, of course, is these are so called cookie cutter guitars, the ones everyone plays and everyone wants. I play a 1980 Peavey T-60; it sounds good, looks cool, and is quality built. I'm saving up for a Hallmark because I don't want to have what everyone else has, I want something unique! So, unfortunately for me, I have to buy sight unseen. However, I do have the reputation Bob Shade has earned with his time in business, as well as the reviews on the internet. Yes, the guitars may need a setup, but on the whole, I don't think it's such a bad thing. Really, I'd rather be able to afford a quality handmade instrument just for me, but that's an issue for another day.

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Re: Buying guitars sight unseen

Postby vjf1968 » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:58 am

I don't think it is a big issue buying guitars sight unseen provided you are buying from a reputable dealer like Hallmark Guitars or Sweetwater. Plus when you really get down to it most mass produced guitars are made by CNC machinery so consistency from guitar to guitar is the same as opposed to pre-CNC days.
The other thing that has changed is that more and more folks are doing their own set ups and repairs so if a guitar is bought before you played it , it would stand to reason that one would adjust the guitar to their own needs. Really, how many folks who have bought a guitar in a shop or online has not adjusted the bridge, adjusted the pick ups, and changed the gauge of the strings?

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Re: Buying guitars sight unseen

Postby Veenture » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:32 am

Vito, I enjoyed reading your rundown [and the reactions] on the modern way of buying guitars. My first 'online/unseen/unplayed' guitar was in 2009...a spankin' brandnew Hallmark 60 Custom from Bob Shade and wasn't disappointed in the least.
Then the eBay-Buying-Bug had bitten me and I have since snagged 5 more guitars of different brands -of which 2 basses- (all used, but mostly condition 'as new') to my complete satisfaction.
It's no guarantee, though, I was very lucky, up 'till now :P

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Vito
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Re: Buying guitars sight unseen

Postby Vito » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:01 am

Veenture wrote:...My first 'online/unseen/unplayed' guitar was in 2009...a spankin' brandnew Hallmark 60 Custom from Bob Shade and wasn't disappointed in the least...
Yep, that's what I'd expect too, Veenture. Before I became a member here, I sent an inquiry to Hallmark regarding the 60 Custom, and Bob replied so quickly that some of the electrons carrying his message must have been greased. :mrgreen:

Truth be told, responsiveness like that is probably one of the biggest indicators that I'm dealing with someone who is one of the good guys. I mean, I was already impressed by the things I had read online about Hallmark guitars, but my brief and amiable correspondence with Bob clinched it. (Plus, as I subsequently learned when I joined this forum, he's a respected member here!) On that basis, I would have no reservations whatsoever about buying a Hallmark guitar...sight unseen.

That's one of the reasons I joined this forum — to find out who's who, what's what, and to benefit from others' experiences. In fact, I expect that I can buy a guitar from any luthier who's a member of this forum with complete confidence.

I guess that's another thing that has changed. Before we were all plugged into the web, it was difficult even to find out who was making instruments, let alone be able to communicate with them instantly and build some personal relationships. And there was nothing like this forum, which is a fantastic information resource that transcends international boundaries.

Access to information changes everything. :!:
"The snake seems to be indifferent to the song." – Donald Fagen
"Yes, but it's a crisp indifference, if you know what I mean." – Walter Becker

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Re: Buying guitars sight unseen

Postby Veenture » Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:56 pm

Vito wrote:That's one of the reasons I joined this forum — to find out who's who, what's what, and to benefit from others' experiences. ...//...Access to information changes everything. :!:

You're right. The difference with me is, I joined Danny's [dubtrub] fine forum after I had taken the 'Hallmark plunge' :o
Always been a Fender man but the latent Mosrite itch in me was finally starting to hurt big and I reckoned I needed to get me a cure but pronto!
The hunt for 'that Mosrite guitar pictured on the back of The Ventures' mid-sixty album sleeves was on but I soon discovered how difficult my quest would prove to be...

And then I stumbled upon the Hallmark 60 Custom...a gorgeous Sunburt beauty that I fell in love with.
And the price was right...finally my 'Ventures Model', even if it didn't say "Mosrite of California" on the headstock!
I said "come to papa"...and took the plunge, what the heck.
Anyhow, I can now blame Bob Shade that I since have a PayPal- and eBay account :D
But seriously, it has opened an exciting new world for me (it was Bob who recommended the Mosrite Forum to me -thanks, Bob!).

-Paul

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Vito
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Re: Buying guitars sight unseen

Postby Vito » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:28 am

Veenture wrote:...The hunt for 'that Mosrite guitar pictured on the back of The Ventures' mid-sixty album sleeves was on...

Aw, you really didn't want one of those original Mosrites anyway. Heck, the knobs only went up to "5" (...or "V" if you're into the 'Roman' thang...heh):

Image

That's no good. You gotta have knobs that at least go to "10". :mrgreen:
"The snake seems to be indifferent to the song." – Donald Fagen
"Yes, but it's a crisp indifference, if you know what I mean." – Walter Becker

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Re: Buying guitars sight unseen

Postby Veenture » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:29 am

Vito wrote:
Veenture wrote:...The hunt for 'that Mosrite guitar pictured on the back of The Ventures' mid-sixty album sleeves was on...

Aw, you really didn't want one of those original Mosrites anyway. Heck, the knobs only went up to "5" (...or "V" if you're into the 'Roman' thang...heh):

http://edroman.com/guitars/mosrite/imag ... _knob2.jpg

That's no good. You gotta have knobs that at least go to "10". :mrgreen:


:D :D :D

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Re: Buying guitars sight unseen

Postby BRRanger » Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:03 pm

Bought sight unseen; Hallmark Swept-wing, Hallmark Stradette, Hallmark Deke Dickerson, Hallmark Maverick Californian, Hallmark Wing-Bat.
100% Satisfaction!


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