Nokie Edwards

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olrocknroller
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Nokie Edwards

Postby olrocknroller » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:57 pm

I have just heard some disturbing news from a reliable source very close to Nokie that contradicts the recent "news release" on The Ventures' website. It would appear that Nokie did not leave the band of his own accord, but was released... Should this be the case, I question why in the world a group would dismiss their most consistent draw at a point in time where their careers are unavoidably on the wane (Heck, they're in their mid-late seventies, and have already lost Bob Bogle!).

I know artists are not known for the best business decisions, but surely by now Don Wilson has realized that Nokie is the lead guitar wizard who took the initial raw Ventures sound and brought it to the pinnacle of instrumental pop-music.

I do not wish to malign Gerry Magee in any way; he is a superb guitarist, but IMHO, he will never attain Nokie's quality of expression in music.

The history of The Ventures' dealings with Nokie is, like most stories, definitely a two-sided sword, but a pattern exists here... If Nokie keeps leaving, why do the V's keep taking him back, and if the V's keep ousting Nokie, why does he go back...answer; because together, they have a killer sound that sells, even today!

I can't make any pronouncement on this news, other than to comment on the poor timing of firing the star of the act just before sunset! I do not wish to be overly critical of anyone, but as one of Nokie's friends, I find this kind of news very disturbing...

Comments?
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Re: Nokie Edwards

Postby Veenture » Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:05 am

Sad developments, lately, true. I feel compelled at this point to express my love for both Nokie's and Gerry's style of playing in equal dosis. In short, Nokie is more consistent and Gerry is more adventurous, IMO. They have both contributed in no small way to The Ventures' longevity as a band and you'll never find me discussing who of the two is better. I for one am glad that Gerry has never become a clone of Nokie. They are both VERY GIFTED musicians and absolute MASTERS at what they do and are unique, each in his own right.
We know that The Ventures have had a bumpy ride with Semie Moseley also, but as already has been stated, "There are always two sides to every story". Bob Bogle deserves a big mention too. I love Bob Bogle's lead work on the early Ventures' tunes adding his delightful chord embellishments that are so characteristic of his style (e.g. Blue Moon) but the Ventures couldn't have had a better suited bass player than Bob Bogle (R.I.P.) in my opinion. Bob was the Ventures' first lead player getting fans to sit up. :|

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Re: Nokie Edwards

Postby mosriteer » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:32 am

I dont think that Nokie is any less adventurous than Gerry. The tracks that are out there support my view generously. True, Nokie does not play any of the traditional blues stylings like Gerry (who, BTW, is a very accomplished guitarist in his own right) but if need be he has done it. An example would be Blues A from the early 80s. Its really sad to see this apparent rift - without Nokie the Ventures sound simply isn't there. Nokie is not just the keeper of the flame, but he is *the* flame of virtuoso guitar and the Ventures sound in particular. Nokie is a guitarist guitarist and without him I doubt if any of us would be around here or elsewhere discussing this matter. If the rift started because Nokie was getting tired of playing the same old tunes (as it happened in the past), I can quite understand it. I haven't spoken to Nokie lately but I plan to do so very soon.
-Kanad

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Re: Nokie Edwards

Postby mosriteer » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:49 am

Correction: Blues A is from the 90s - a version appeared in a Live recording CD from 1992 (Live at Blues Alley). I have also heard an untitled Blues composition by Nokie.
-Kanad

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Re: Nokie Edwards

Postby vibramute » Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:24 pm

I think Veenture brings up some very good points. I love Nokie, especially in the 'classic Mosrite' era but I don't like that Gerry gets slagged off as a second rate, "not Nokie" guitar player. What has Nokie done of significance besides the Ventures? Gerry was a first call session guitarist who has had a lengthy and impressive career completely outside of The Ventures. He's played/toured with The Monkees, Elvis, Delaney and Bonnie, Captain Beefheart, John Mayall, Kris Kirstofferson, Vince Gill, and hundreds more. He traded licks with Clapton, Albert Lee, gave lessons to Jerry Donahue....I'm sorry, the guy is every bit as accomplished as Nokie. We have a real legend on lead, and nobody can admit it because it's 'not Nokie...boo hoo!". A Louisiana film maker has been working on a documentary about Gerry. Hopefully when it comes out, some eyes will be opened.

All this about Nokie's "star draw" is a fairly weak argument. The majority of ticket buyers attending a US Ventures concert are casual fans and come because of the name "The Ventures", not Nokie Edwards. It's the small percentage of us geeks/uber fans that notice or care who's playing lead. Plus, Don Wilson wouldn't make a major personnel change if he felt it would hurt attendance/sales. The band still sells out theaters and performing art centers in Japan year after year with Gerry on lead guitar (who's just as popular and revered in that country as Nokie). They are doing fine in the 'bread and butter' market of Japan and should be successful with their limited engagements in the US.

The argument "it just doesn't sound the same with Gerry" doesn't fly either. Nokie's smooth jazz-country, Hitchhiker tone and thumbpicking are a far cry from the style/tone/attack he utilized in the 60's. His current take on a Ventures classic like "Slaughter On 10th Avenue" is just as different from the original recording as Gerry's. It's my opinion that the true, classic sound of the Ventures died with Bob Bogle.

Gerry has technically held down the lead guitar duties longer then Nokie (see the breakdown below and add up the numbers...I think my time line is fairly accurate):

Nokie: 63-68 There is some grey area about when he 'officially' started...there was the Bogle/Edwards bass-lead switchoff that went on for some time, plus they were employing a lot of session guitarists on those early records. It seems about the time of the Surfing and Country Classic albums that Nokie became the permanent lead guitarist and remained so until 1968.
Gerry: 68-72
Nokie: 72-84
Gerry: 84-present
Nokie: mid 90's-2012 special guest

Maybe my take is slanted, but I'm of the opinion that Gerry McGee is the best guitarist The Ventures ever had. I can admit he may not be the best guitarist for The Ventures but he's kept them in the game, both onstage and in the studio for almost 35 years. It's fair to say that without Gerry stepping in every time Nokie is fired or quits, there wouldn't be any Ventures at all...

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Re: Nokie Edwards

Postby olrocknroller » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:58 pm

The band still sells out theaters and performing art centers in Japan year after year with Gerry on lead guitar (who's just as popular and revered in that country as Nokie). They are doing fine in the 'bread and butter' market of Japan and should be successful with their limited engagements in the US.

The argument "it just doesn't sound the same with Gerry" doesn't fly either. Nokie's smooth jazz-country, Hitchhiker tone and thumbpicking are a far cry from the style/tone/attack he utilized in the 60's. His current take on a Ventures classic like "Slaughter On 10th Avenue" is just as different from the original recording as Gerry's. It's my opinion that the true, classic sound of the Ventures died with Bob Bogle.

Gerry has technically held down the lead guitar duties longer then Nokie (see the breakdown below and add up the numbers...I think my time line is fairly accurate):

Nokie: 63-68 There is some grey area about when he 'officially' started...there was the Bogle/Edwards bass-lead switchoff that went on for some time, plus they were employing a lot of session guitarists on those early records. It seems about the time of the Surfing and Country Classic albums that Nokie became the permanent lead guitarist and remained so until 1968.
Gerry: 68-72
Nokie: 72-84
Gerry: 84-present
Nokie: mid 90's-2012 special guest

Maybe my take is slanted, but I'm of the opinion that Gerry McGee is the best guitarist The Ventures ever had. I can admit he may not be the best guitarist for The Ventures but he's kept them in the game, both onstage and in the studio for almost 35 years. It's fair to say that without Gerry stepping in every time Nokie is fired or quits, there wouldn't be any Ventures at all...


Points well taken, and well said. As I tried to say, I did not want to malign Gerry and his talents in any way...guess I made the mistake of stating my preference for Nokie style-wise, and that got us side-jacked onto the Nokie vs Gerry thing. In fact, Gerry's work on "Swamp Rock" is one of my favorite Ventures albums.

No, my main thrust in writing this topic was to bring to light the fact that there are now two distinctly different stories regarding the nature of the split...sorry it was misinterpreted... :oops:
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Re: Nokie Edwards

Postby vibramute » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:02 am

If Nokie was unceremoniously terminated, that is truly a shame. We'll probably never know the real reason.

I never understood why Nokie and Gerry couldn't switch off on bass and lead and perform together? We got a glimpse of that lineup in the 80's and it seemed to work well. Granted, the bottom end groove suffered, (nether is a proper bassist), but it makes more sense having both lead guitarists then just one plus a non original member (Spaulding) doing his best Bob Bogle impression. Perhaps there is too much ego in the Edwards and McGee camps for that to happen...

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Re: Nokie Edwards

Postby olrocknroller » Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:30 am

vibramute wrote:If Nokie was unceremoniously terminated, that is truly a shame. We'll probably never know the real reason.

I never understood why Nokie and Gerry couldn't switch off on bass and lead and perform together? We got a glimpse of that lineup in the 80's and it seemed to work well. Granted, the bottom end groove suffered, (nether is a proper bassist), but it makes more sense having both lead guitarists then just one plus a non original member (Spaulding) doing his best Bob Bogle impression. Perhaps there is too much ego in the Edwards and McGee camps for that to happen...


My guess is dollars...like everyone else, The Ventures have to keep one eye on the bottom line; Nokie and Gerry together may have been an option except for the cost...
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Re: Nokie Edwards

Postby Veenture » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:04 am

Excellent post(s) Vibramute! You say things so much better than I can. :)
I very much agree what you say about Nokie's current "smooth jazz-country, Hitchhiker tone and thumbpicking" being so different to his earlier years of exciting playing but although his fire has died down (playing with/for The Ventures), his playing remains immaculate, for sure. Also, I can well imagine him getting bored playing the same old stuff over and over again and perhaps more importantly, let's not forget he is turning 78 next year and is still playing (faultless) and writing new songs, even if not for The Ventures. Gerry McGee (correct spelling) is still the younger guy. Personally, I have never been particularly impressed by the Hitchhiker's tone but then in all fairness, I have only heard Nokie play his. Here's how my personal 'breakdown' of the band called The Ventures would be, taking preference for the first three:

"Bob Bogle & The Ventures"
"Nokie Edwards & The Ventures"
"Gerry McGee & The Ventures"
"Bob Spalding's Tribute Ventures"

But don't shoot me guys, I'm just a humble learning-to-play-guitar-guy myself :roll:

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Re: Nokie Edwards

Postby sleeperNY » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:00 pm

Guy's, I have just enjoyed reading this thread. I am, as most of you are a huge Nokie fan. Always have been and always will be. I also have the greatest respect fore Gerry,he is a fantastic guitar player. He hasn't hurt the Ventures in the least. He was probably the right man for the job when it came along. As for there playing now as apposed to back in the day, I would bet that we all have changed in the way we play. When we are young and starting out we have the fire of youth with us and play that way. As we age most of us (not all) tend to change the way we play. We try to play smoother and with more emotion and probably don't even realize it at the time. What you hear from most fans as a guitar player gets older is, yes he is good but he doesn't play with the fire he use to. Why would he? He knows so much more now and uses that knowledge to crate I think in most cases better music. I guess all that I am trying to say is, they are both among the best there is and deserve all the respect that goes with what they do as individuals with there own style of playing.

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