2 questions about the Ventures

[GTSP]

Here is a question from a Ramones fan who knows nuthin about the Ventures. I've learned some about them just because they are such a big part of the history of the guitar I love.

1) why wasn't the contract between Mosrite & the Ventures renewed? Business relation sour? Did they not like the guitars? What?

2) Although a short portion of their history is w/ Mosrite, are these years considered their best years? Their pinnicle, if you will?

[fishyfish235]

1) I quite sure that they loved the guitars, but I'm not sure about the rest.

2) I would consider these years to be their best years. The Mosrite sound definitely made them sound much more unique and memorable.

[ZacJM]

I think it was their best years for two reasons
1) The Mosrites sound amazing
2) I think they were at their peak performance wise. Mel was playing very fast on the Live in 65 album as was the rest of the group but they were on fire back then! Then jump to 70s onward and you see a slow down in their playing, they experiment alot with guitars, Nokie with a tele and apparently Bob Bogle did alot of experimentation with fender basses of various models, and now in present times they have slowed down even more. While skill wise they have no doubt progressed, their style changed as well and they just weren't the same, they are still a great band but def. during the Mosrite years they were at their best!

The fast Ventures from 1965 with those awesome white mosrites are what I consider The Ventures

[rog43win]

Here is a question from a Ramones fan who knows nuthin about the Ventures. I've learned some about them just because they are such a big part of the history of the guitar I love.

1) why wasn't the contract between Mosrite & the Ventures renewed? Business relation sour? Did they not like the guitars? What?

2) Although a short portion of their history is w/ Mosrite, are these years considered their best years? Their pinnicle, if you will?

GTSP....The Ventures became the Mosrite Distributing Company, and were selling 500 Mosrites per month....According to Bob Bogle, Semie Moseley went to the Ventures and said he wasn't realizing enough profit and suggested they raise the price of the guitars. Bob felt it was unwise to put the price of the Mosrite higher than Fender. Semie reminded Bob that they were under a "perpetual contract" for production distribution, so it was not legal and binding. Therefore the Ventures would simply have to pay more towards his profit either by raising the price of the guitars, or absorb the loss. ..Bob said they should abandon the whole thing and let Semie carry on by himself. The final result was that they bought Bob out. He played the instrument another 5 years but was no longer part of the Mosrite operation.....

In my opinion, the Mosrite years were the best for the Ventures....to me it was sort of phase 2 for them. In the early years, the foundation of the famous Ventures sound was established, with Bob on lead, Don on rhythm, and Nokie on bass......playing Fenders...I loved that sound too, probably what made me fall in love with the Ventures....and then the switch from Bob to Nokie on lead.......and a style change for their sound......but I think the 1965 Ventures sound is my favorite of all.........

Roger

[Veenture]

My bit for you Jayson:

The Ventures Book page 135:
“By the end of 1965 there were countless young guitarists around the world aching to own a Mosrite guitar”.

“As a choice of The Ventures, the instruments were considered by scores of players to be the Cadillac of guitars”.

“When production doubled, even more employees were hired in an attempt to quadruple the production. In another year, international orders piled up, demanding even larger premises. Making more money than he had ever imagined, Semie now made what is considered the first of several bad decisions. While trying to meet the increased demand for Ventures models, he seized a chance to buy the Dobro Company in Gardena…”.

and on page 136:
“It was around this time that Don Wilson admitted to being not completely enthralled with the ultra thin necks of Mosrite guitars. When he mentioned to Semie that he would like to have a wider neck made available, at least for his own use, Semie’s reaction was explosive and negative, insisting that the design was perfect and would never be altered. Naturally, Don was not satisfied”.

Here’s a quote from the inlay of “The Ventures in Space” album on CD (1992, EMI Records USA):
“One particularly revolutionary aspect of Ventures In Space was it’s guitar sound which was unusually dense and jagged for it’s day. The album was the first one on which The Ventures played Semie Moseley’s Mosrite guitars. The guitars’ propensity for distortion gave The Ventures’ sound a new edge. Don Wilson later complained to Guitar Player that Mosrites were just a little too sensitive. You’d crank it up and get distortion. Nevertheless, if it was this oversensitivity that resulted in the fuzzed-out glory of the Ventures’ version of The Marketts’ Out Of Limits, the fans certainly didn’t mind.”

I had already liked the early “clean sounds” of The Ventures on their Fender equipment they used/endorsed but when first listening to the Mosrite sound in the mix starting with their albums listed below, I really did sit up and start taking serious notice and with said albums my own addiction was now cemented for good, although I didn’t realize it at the time:

THE VENTURES IN SPACE (NOV. 1963)
THE FABULOUS VENTURES (JUL. 1964)
WALK, DON’T RUN VOL.2 (OCT. 1964)
KNOCK ME OUT (1964, released FEB. 1965)
ALL ABOUT THE VENTURES (Live in Japan JULY 1965, released in MAR. 1966)

Some more about the ending of the endorsement:

The Ventures Book page 159:
1967 –also the year that Don Wilson and wife Nancy Bacon decided to dissolve their marriage (yes, the girl on the album cover of WDR vol.2!)
“The Ventures’ five-year contract with Mosrite came up for renewal. During a scheduled meeting with Semie, Don and Bob received some shocking news. With artists such as Glen Campbell now appearing on album covers with an unendorsed Mosrite, Moseley had decided not to renew, stating that his guitars could now stand on their name alone. As owners of Mosrite Distributing, The Ventures continued to play Mosrite guitars without their logo, but their suspicions that Semie was making a mistake would soon be confirmed.”

Del Halterman continues in his book [page 160] about the failure of Award Amplifiers leading to The Ventures finding themselves facing a “serious financial bind. The only solution was to dissolve their Mosrite Distributing Company. When that happened, Semie Moseley was also in trouble.”
etc. etc.

Now, that is Del Halterman’s account of course and I’m not sure if one can accept it as 100% Mosrite history (with all due respect to Del, I think he did a fantastic job), so I still need to get my hands on the book 'American Guitars' by Tom Wheeler to read up on an apparently very revealing article about the termination of the Ventures’ endorsement deal with Semie.

[edit] if anyone reading this has Tom Wheeler’s account, I’d love to have a scan of it (if it’s not too much trouble). Please PM me, the books on ebay are VERY expensive to ship

-Paul

[rog43win]

Paul......beautiful coverage of GTSP's questions.........very in-depth ...thanks......Roger

[Sarah93003]

Fantastic information, Paul. Thanks, I enjoyed reading it. It might sound strange, but in reality I never knew about Mosrite guitars due to a particular artist. I never really heard a Ventures song until a couple of years ago when I heard "Walk Don't Run" being played on a Gretsch. I was unaware of them while growing up. I've never listened to anything from the Ramones, or Kurt Cobain. Basically, anyone who played Mosrite guitars just did not happen to be in my listening repertoire. I grew up listening to Country and Fifities, due to my parents influence. By the time I was a teenager I was into The Who, Alice Cooper, Bruce Springsteen, etc. and later it was Def Leppard, Bon Jovi, Journey, etc.

My "obsession" with Mosrite is traced to one guitar and that was an older gentlemen I met who was playing a Celebrity. I was smitten and spent years trying to acquire one.

One of the things I love about this forum is the vast education I have received on a daily basis. Very cool!

[rog43win]

Paul, I got my info from Del's book too...lol....but you really searched it out properly, thanks again........
love those Ventures......and Mosrites.....

Roger

[Rich121]

Now, that is Del Halterman’s account of course and I’m not sure if one can accept it as 100% Mosrite history (with all due respect to Del, I think he did a fantastic job), so I still need to get my hands on the book 'American Guitars' by Tom Wheeler to read up on an apparently very revealing article about the termination of the Ventures’ endorsement deal with Semie.
-Paul

Semie:
"I did not participate any further in the amplifier production. Almost every dealer bought from one to a dozen amplifiers, and not one of the amps was any good. That tied up thousands of dollars. The Ventures had a $500,000 line of credit from Crocker National. Their credit was used up, so Crocker shut the Ventures down, and Mosrite Distributing folded. This all took place in the last part of 1968 and the early part of 1969."

Semie Moseley interview with Tom Wheeler - April 1980
American Guitars - Page 280


Rich

[Veenture]

Hey Rich, thank you my man for adding that bit of information. I think GTSP should be pleased with us!